This is a very delicate issue. This chart I was asked to read by a woman I know very well.

She has a job working at a coffee shop. She has been working there for the past 7 months.
Lately she has been noticing her cash drawer is always short of money, never more than 20 dollars though. This has happened already
three times in the past week and a half. But this is most unusual and suspicious.
She has always been in the past even in her cash drawer. She was on a month long vacation overseas and when she came back a new person was hired. He is very young, 23, college student. They have been working together one whole month so far.
At first they got along very well and still do. But she is suspicious of him very recently. Especially since they work the same days but he gets to work 2 hours before she does. She is suspicious towards him & thinks perhaps when she is not looking he takes some of her money in her drawer.

Is her suspicion correct? Or could she been giving out too much money to her customers?

She is combust the Sun & in the 8th house, she feels powerless over this siatuation. Especially having no proof at all someone took her money or perhaps its her fault, she has been giving out wrong change the whole time.
He is the co-worker the 6th house in the 5th. Moon in Gemini fits his personality very well. At work she says he is extremely social, and lively and comedic like an actor! Bu still stractching my head why he is in the 5th house? Is working there some sort of enterntaintment for him?Moon in triplicity of the querent, Saturn, his feelings for her are good. Or should I stick to the 7th house? I read somewhere theft is a 7th house matter. But I think I should stick with the 6th since its not a case of identifying the theft, she has a hunch of who could it be. He is applying to many planets.
A square to Mercury ruler of the 8th house and Jupiter ruler of the second house, would he find himself in trouble for something? Is he a victim of this too?

I can't help but notice Neptune is in the 1st, could the querent be imagining him and making it up in her head as a thief?
Frawley says that a "planet without strength placed in an angular house often shows the thief..." This chart doesn't have any weak planets on the angles.
So if its not him the 6th house person, then should I look at the 7th to find out who it could be? In that case Sun in Libra in the 8th, a male & a stranger. But then we are assuming stole her money. It could be all a mistake.
What house should I assign the missing money? I wanted at first to assign the Moon for the missing money. However the co-worker is assigned that planet. Would it be the second house? Jupiter is the ruler of the 2nd house retrograde. Jupiter is not angular, quesited will never recover the money, if that is significant. However she probably knows that already!
In the end, I think he is not a theif. Perhaps its all just a mistake and its my friends fault, she needs to start paying attention because it can happen again (Saturn square NN) but she is also conjunct the 12th house cusp, perhaps there is something she doesn't know yet?
Please take a look someone, thanks.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I just realized that coffee shops are 5th house enviroment. So its an appropiate place for him to be in.

Co-worker is more usually 7th.. sun.. try that.
So now the moon is the "action" in the 5th house coffee shop.

oh you know that is the seventh house was the house I initially started with when I first looked at this then doubted myself because I remembered 6th house for co-workers! I will go back and see what I can find, thanks for that. I will write back later.

"He is the co-worker the 6th house in the 5th."

Where does this idea of co-worker being the 6th come from? I've never read it anywhere but have seen quite a few people mention it.

What I find weird about this horary is that she is saturn well dignified and he is Sun in fall. However he is making Saturn combust and Frawley suggests that a combust planet is well suited for doing something when nobody can see you. If anything you might imagine that were this to be the case of a thief that the significators would be reversed.
Instead it looks like, if anyone is stealing, it is her instead. Also moon translates the light between Mercury lord 8 and Jupiter lord 2, if anything you would think that she was taking money from his till, lord 8, to her till, lord 2.

It doesn't quite make sense unless the mistake is just her own all this time?

I like that there's hr agreement (Saturn hr) and the chart seems to reflect the situation.

I can't help but notice Neptune is in the 1st, could the querent be imagining him and making it up in her head as a thief?

She is combust the Sun & in the 8th house, she feels powerless over this siatuation.

The Saturn combust horaries have been strange and I was hoping someone might post an example for discussion.

Obviously a combust querent is also a "Consideration," or someone who cannot listen to reason or be "regulated." It doesn't always indicate that they fear or are powerless by someone, but perhaps they are blinded by their own prejudices before attempting to ask the question? I would think the coworker is 7th house, which makes it difficult to assign a thief, as they are also 7th house.

Lilly's 43 Considerations:

Beware in all Judgments, when the Significator of the question is either Combust, or in Opposition to the Sun, he will then signifie nothing of the matter, no good, nor is able to bring anything to perfection.

Christian Astrology Book I, pages 111, 113. 123:

... you must know that the combustion of any Planet is the greatest misfortune that can be.

[COMBUSTION.] A Planet is said to be Combust of the Sun, when in the same Sign where the Sun is in, he is not distant from the Sun eight degrees and thirty minutes, either before or after the Sun; as Jupiter in the tenth degree of Aries, and Sun in the eighteenth of Aries; here Jupiter is Combust: or let the Sun be in eighteen of Aries, and Jupiter in twenty eight degrees of Aries, here Jupiter is Combust: and you must observe a Planet is more afflicted when the Sun hastens to conjunction of him, then when the Sun receds from him; in regard it?s the body of the Sun that doth afflict. I allow the moyity of his own Orbs to shew the time of Combustion, and not of Jupiter; for by that rule Jupiter should not be combust before he is within four degrees and a half of the Sun. I know many are against this opinion.

Use which you find most verity in: the significator of the Querent Combust, shews him or her in great fear, and over powred by some great person

If the Lord of the Ascendant be Combust, neither question propounded will take, or Querent be regulated.

The first thing I wondered about combustion here by the 7th ruler of the querent is that Saturn (querent) would be unlikely to see the situation clearly, even without Neptune involved (there is also a Moon-Neptune link). The Sun is very malevolent here, of course, and the applying conjunction might represent an unpleasant situation in the future (which may be enlightening after the conjunction in cardinal/succeedent 1 degree unit = maybe a week), but I also just wonder if Saturn cannot "see" things properly, especially say Mercury and the Moon, who are oriental whereas Saturn is occidental (on opposites sides of the Sun and unable to be seen).

Frawley says that a peregrine planet in an angle is often a thief because that's one of Lilly's aphorisms. Sun (coworker), Venus and Moon are all peregrine. The Moon is peregrine and received by the 8th ruler (other people's money - this isn't her money), although not in an angle. The last aspect that the Moon made was a trine to Sun/Saturn and the next it makes is a square to Mercury. Mercury is contrantiscia Sun and Saturn too. Something seems fishy with Moon/Mercury, IMO. Moon is waving a flag to Mercury (also a T-square with Jupiter, 2nd ruler, retro and conjunct Uranus). It may not mean there's a thief, but the Moon-Mercury might be explaining where the money is going.

Since Mercury is actually ruler of the 8th and in the 8th (also 2nd ruler in the 2nd), I am confused about the money being missing or at least being stollen. You'd think it would be in the proper place. Also, what has the Sun been up to? He's not aspecting anything but Saturn in the current sign.

I'm not sure how to assign customers. Maybe they are the 6th ruler, Moon.

However he is making Saturn combust and Frawley suggests that a combust planet is well suited for doing something when nobody can see you.

Perhaps, but wouldn't you think if he were truly "unseen" that she wouldn't be asking the question? She may not be seeing him take the money (hypothetically), but she is noticing that the money is missing, therefore the concept of a combust planet getting away with theft falls apart a bit. The combustion to me seems to suggest not seeing the situation properly and maybe false blame.

"Perhaps, but wouldn't you think if he were truly "unseen" that she wouldn't be asking the question? She may not be seeing him take the money (hypothetically), but she is noticing that the money is missing, therefore the concept of a combust planet getting away with theft falls apart a bit. The combustion to me seems to suggest not seeing the situation properly and maybe false blame."

The point being that Saturn is HER, not him. So if the significators were the other way around it might make sense. That's what I was trying to say. But they aren't. Sun is this other guy and she is saturn so it seems like he's NOT a thief but for some reason he is making her combust. Maybe that feeling of being stifled by him somehow is projected into her own work and she's messing up with her till and not seeing it for what it is.


"Sun (coworker), Venus and Moon are all peregrine."

Sun isn't peregrine here, it is in fall in Libra. Venus is also not peregrine, it is in detriment in Scorpio. Moon is the only planet that is peregrine. Or at least that's how Frawley has described peregrine, where a planet is not in any essential debility or dignity. I know technically a peregrine planet is one that has no essential dignity, but I think Frawley used the term separately from when that same planet was in detriment or fall.

If you look at Lilly's weighting system you'll see that peregrine is separated from fall and detriment. If you were to consider them separately, then the sun here would be both in fall and peregrine and so woudl be -4 + -5 = -9.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

Oh, and Deb has a horary up on missing money with another helpful Lilly quote, Interestingly, the querent was also combust here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/money.html

Lilly says on page 321 of Christian Astrology:

... behold from whom the Lord of the ascendant did last separate, and if he did separate from Saturn, the cause of the lost thing was through forgetfulness of the owner, who knows not where he laid it, or it is forgotten by reason of some cold or sickness which afflicted the loser, especially if Saturn be Retrograde.

If the Lord of the term of the Moon, or the Lord of the 2nd be in a succedent House, then the things are about the Owner, and not much elongated (CA. p.349)

Moon's last aspect was with Saturn. 2nd and 8th ruler are both succeedent. Moon applying to the 8th ruler seems like maybe a sign of recovery or at least understanding where it went.

They also mention that Mercury is a significator for money (via Lilly).

I am wondering why they (querent/quesited) are also intercepted in a sign of Venus, and Venus rules the 4th house (location of the missing item). Venus is in detrimented (damaged or has been messed with though?) with the 10th ruler in the 9th (or turned 12th from the 10th). You'd think Venus would show where the money is kept and that it is with the main boss person, maybe in a safe or somwhere away from the cash registers?

Also, are others allowed to take money from her registers and does she only work with this one person?

Sun isn't peregrine here, it is in fall in Libra. Venus is also not peregrine, it is in detriment in Scorpio. Moon is the only planet that is peregrine. Or at least that's how Frawley has described peregrine, where a planet is not in any essential debility or dignity. I know technically a peregrine planet is one that has no essential dignity, but I think Frawley used the term separately from when that same planet was in detriment or fall.

Most use peregrine essential debility when it realtes to a lack of essential dignity. A planet can be both in fall or detriment and also peregrine. Likewise, a planet can have essential dignity and be in detriment or fall. Essential dignity would be unlikely to help much when in fall or detriment, but it would be better than also being peregrine.

"A planet can be both in fall or detriment and also peregrine. "

So would you consider the sun in libra to have a weight of -9?
-4 for fall and then -5 for peregrine?

Yeesh, glad I'm not a Libra sun!

So would you consider the sun in libra to have a weight of -9?
-4 for fall and then -5 for peregrine?

Yeesh, glad I'm not a Libra sun!

Right, and you can also have a lot of essential dignity via Lilly's point scale. Just look at Mercury in Virgo. He has domicile, exaltation and also minor dignities under some degrees. He could have as much as 11 points of essential dignity if he's in the first 7 degrees.

Even if you use the Dorthean triplicities, Sun still has no essential dignity in Libra and is in fall. It's the exaltation of malefic Saturn though, who Lilly says is his (Sun's) enemy. Aquarius, Saturn's domicile, would be worse of all for the Sun though, due to detriment and peregrine placement (-10). Mercury in Pisces is the lowest, it seems.

Still a natal is likely to be different than horary in how these planets express themselves, as a person is very complex and changes with time. I think most of us have seen that it's not helpful to get too caught up in the point scales outside of horary. The Sun obviously relates a lot to self image and also your life force/health in natal, whereas in horary it is just describing a complex person very simply. Even if someone is described this way, it could be a small part of their personality, or partly just how the querent/quesited sees that person.

An ill-dignified Sun in horary is likely to be very arrogant, proud, domineering, or think they are due more than they deserve, which might be especially true in a difficult aspect with the querent. Lilly says they have no gravity to their words, so they might be frivolous or immature. Thankfully, I'm sure we all know Aquarius and Libra Suns that are nothing like that!