Hello

Well after re-considering this one for a while I must admit that I'm stumped.

At the end of September, after the last update, I re-read the thread, and I've just re-read the whole thread again. It seems that most of us thought that the readmission probably wouldn't happen, at least on the first attempt, and that there were significant testimonies against it...cadency, combustion/sunbeams, new moon/eclipse, retrogrades etc.

It seems logical that the delays are part of those significations, yet I can't help feeling after re-reading the thread that most of us thought there were significant negative testimonies and very few testimonies in favour of readmission.

The questions I am asking myself are ones such as these... Could that out of sign trine really have come into play in this period of time and was it really capable of perfecting the matter? Is this a case of the querent managing to surmount the obstacles? Did we misjudge the chart? Are some of the traditional interpretations of things like combustion or the weakness of retrograde significators not working quite how they're thought to? Is it just that horary doesn't work 100% of the time? It worries me that sometimes in horary a chart could easily discourage someone from trying when they might actually succeed, is this horary an example of that?

It would be easy to say that although the querent has succeeded in gaining readmission the horary was warning against it, or something similar. But the question was will the querent be readmitted and the outcome was yes.

Regards

H.

wintersa (and handn)

Only just read these updates now. I'm glad she got admitted to the university.

I agree that there was some negative testimonies but I still feel that hte chart indicates quite nicely that the querent would get the place. I think I said in my interpretation that she would have to sit an exam or do some sort of test or there'd be some sort of change of situation before it could take place. Although Saturn was slowing to retrograde I wonder if it wasn't just showing that the university (saturn) was slowing down and then reapplying towards our querent.
What we ended up with was Venus perfecting her aspect with Saturn whilst saturn, with the two in mutual reception and mutual application. Saturn being stationary is probably more relevant to the unviersity than it is to the querent, so Saturn stationary sounded to me like some internal problems with the university or some inability to move forward. You said that the department head had just retired.
Venus had left cazimi though and had entered combustion. My understanding of combust planets (though I might be wrong on this) is that combustion occurs when the planet is in conjunction with the Sun by about 8 degrees, but the conjunction should occur in the same sign. That happens at the time of the question, but Venus had to change sign to aspect Saturn and so a change of situation and Venus escapes combustion when the aspect perfects, enters into mutual reception and mutual appliation by trine (the easiest aspect).

I think what happened was described perfectly by the chart. Not sure why people were thinking it wouldn't happen tbh. As for the out of sign thing, sure, the planets were out of sign at the time of the question, but when they perfect their aspect, they're NOT out of sign and Venus aspects nothing else before aspecting Saturn (so no prohibition). With saturn retrograding to wait and mutually apply to venus as well as the mutual reception I'd have thought it was all there. The dealys are likely the slow moving saturn.

Paul

I would have still said a YES but merc gets to saturn first.

It would be interference.

CD

Paul wrote:wintersa (and handn)

Only just read these updates now. I'm glad she got admitted to the university.

I agree that there was some negative testimonies but I still feel that hte chart indicates quite nicely that the querent would get the place. I think I said in my interpretation that she would have to sit an exam or do some sort of test or there'd be some sort of change of situation before it could take place. Although Saturn was slowing to retrograde I wonder if it wasn't just showing that the university (saturn) was slowing down and then reapplying towards our querent.
What we ended up with was Venus perfecting her aspect with Saturn whilst saturn, with the two in mutual reception and mutual application. Saturn being stationary is probably more relevant to the unviersity than it is to the querent, so Saturn stationary sounded to me like some internal problems with the university or some inability to move forward. You said that the department head had just retired.
Venus had left cazimi though and had entered combustion. My understanding of combust planets (though I might be wrong on this) is that combustion occurs when the planet is in conjunction with the Sun by about 8 degrees, but the conjunction should occur in the same sign. That happens at the time of the question, but Venus had to change sign to aspect Saturn and so a change of situation and Venus escapes combustion when the aspect perfects, enters into mutual reception and mutual appliation by trine (the easiest aspect).

I think what happened was described perfectly by the chart. Not sure why people were thinking it wouldn't happen tbh. As for the out of sign thing, sure, the planets were out of sign at the time of the question, but when they perfect their aspect, they're NOT out of sign and Venus aspects nothing else before aspecting Saturn (so no prohibition). With saturn retrograding to wait and mutually apply to venus as well as the mutual reception I'd have thought it was all there. The dealys are likely the slow moving saturn.

"I would have still said a YES but merc gets to saturn first.
It would be interference. "

Nope, mercury goes direct before it retrogrades to perfect its aspect to Saturn.

Paul

Then it is flat out YES... trine with mutual reception?! HECK YEAH!

CD

A very confusing outcome, going against pretty much all the most important rules of horary astrology, IMO.
Only the mutual reception of the main significators speaks for a positive result, though all the other, much more relevant factors, are against it
What I would like to know is, whether this chart is radical or not - since the data required to check the ruler of the hour are unavailable.

Goran

Goran

I would say the chart is radical because Saturn retro - would be the univerity readmitting.
Venus and Moon both in 9th house

I wonder if any antiscias involved. It is a tough one.

Cheers
CD

Goran

Am I not right in saying that the only real testimony against a positive outcome is the combust nature of Venus and the debilitated Saturn? Everything else was positive though. I was surprised when everyone was against a positive outcome on this horary. It's at the very least an "it coudl go either way" situation.

Paul wrote:Am I not right in saying that the only real testimony against a positive outcome is the combust nature of Venus and the debilitated Saturn?

Hello Paul

I know you've addressed Goran, but....

In short, no

In various posts in this thread - Goran's and Deb's included - the negative testimonies have been listed already. I briefly listed some of them in my last post: combustion and eclipse, cadency, retrogradation, as well as essential debility and so on.

At the time of the thread opening I didn't think that the situation was entirely devoid of hope (I have my notes from that time which I've looked back on to refresh my memory of my thoughts back then) but if we're going to interpret horary charts according to traditional perspectives then this chart did show us considerable negative testimonies, as the thread discussion records.

Regards

H.

Paul,

You've entirely forgotten to mention the Moon, probably the most important horary factor to begin with. Its condition is more than bad - combust, in detriment near the nodes, opposite to its house of joy, at the end of a monthly cycle,out of sect and above the horizon...along with the impeded Venus and ill-disposed Saturn(cadent and retrograde). Therefore I can see no positivity in this chart, if I follow the rules of horary astrology closely. On top of it all, there's an angular,peregrine malefic in a fixed sign(Mars in Leo).


Greetings,
Goran

Goran

Ah I see where you're coming from now!

Hello all,

Figured I throw in my 2 cents of hindsight. I think I remember taking one look at this chart in January, saying to myself "that looks bad", and then stayed the hell away from this thread.

Everyone has already noted that many of the significators are in poor state. According to wintersea, this matches up with the situation the querent finds herself in and her fear of the application and visa failing. I'd argue that Venus isn't under the beams, and Deb has mentioned the reasoning I'd follow on this, much earlier in the thread.

But I think wintersea has put her finger on it:

wintersea wrote:is there a translation of light?

The Moon would have joined with Mercury after it has passed the square with Saturn, ruler of the quesited, before the chart was cast. So Mercury would carry Saturn's signification and then quickly give it to the Moon, which will then bring it to the Sun and Venus, thus answering the question positively.

As for the timing, maybe a look at the Moon's speed might help? I don't have my "gear" with me so maybe someone else would like to have a look? Also let me know if I've bungled the aspect timing.