In a way it seems more fitting that the two feminine planets plus the one neutral planet are able to rise in the west after sunset, whereas the masculine planets rise in the east before sunrise. This separation out from the ?morning risers? says something about their feminine inclinations, and their inferior positions under the Sun. (If it helps think of these feminine-type planets as like vampires ? they are not tired in the evening; they are refreshed by it ).

Isn't it appropriate too to have the two feminine planets (and one that goes either way) not following the simple planetary phases of the masculine planets? Sound familiar to anyone?

I'm sure the Vampire analogy will appeal to Margherita and other astrologers with Gothic inclinations!

Or Vampira analogy... I think the fact that Venus and the Moon are feminine planets (+ Mercury is more or less androgynous) made this clearer for me. Thanks for pointing that out, Deb.

Deb wrote: But this is what was termed the ?rising? in ancient astrology, with that period of visibility continuing to increase each day ? a more essential principal than the daily rising over the ascendant. Neither Venus nor Mercury gets to be seen for very long because they are limited by their nearness to the Sun, but the process is still happening.

Hello Deborah,
thanks for claryfing this point. This morning I had no time to do it by myself.

But they are retrograde when they do this, so how can they seem new or fresh?

In fact, matutine rising is retrograde, it is not a good condition, I agree with you.
Obviously it depends what we want: for example, Mercury at the superior conjunction makes the THOUGHT, at the lower one, when it is retrograde, the ACTION.
So i think it depends which geniture we are talking about.
And moreover we cannot forget the hairesis, the direct vespertine motion (from the visibility) makes a "anima mediocris" an ordinary soul in a diurnal geniture, but a "anima fortis" a strong soul in a night one.

Anyway motion of inferior planets are not easy to grasp, at least for me.


Margherita
visit me at www.heavenastrolabe.splinder.com

MarkC wrote:I'm sure the Vampire analogy will appeal to Margherita and other astrologers with Gothic inclinations!

Hi, does the actual season of the sun matter when adding the elements for the temperament? If I'm born in a tropical location with Sun in Scorpio (autumn...cold and dry) but it isn't actually autumn or cold and dry there? I guess I am just wondering if we are supposed to look at things as they actually are for this, or if the elements are just symbolic?

Hi, thanks Tom.

hi, Angela, I live in the south hemisphere to and I can say that the movements of "seasons" are essencial ones, not the actual ones. So, use it as was prescribed.

Hi Yuzuru, thanks a lot for mentioning that.

Hello. Sorry to revive an old thread, but I have a question ...

Is it unreasonable to assume that the modality of a sign affects the expression of its "elemental" qualities onto a planet therein, especially as it concerns the calculation of temperament?

This is how I'm thinking: that the Moon, for example, in a cardinal sign "exudes" whatever element the sign happens to be better than a fixed sign of the same element, and fixed better than mutable. Which means that the Moon in a cardinal sign would "earn more points" towards whatever element/humour it is counted as being in. The same could go for the Ascendant, etc.

Am I crazy? To me, this would potentially make calculating the temperament easier and more clear. [As a side-note, why can't the angularity of a planet help determine it's "strength" in the temperament calculation as well?]

I apologize if this seems ridiculous, but I am not afraid to ask questions. I hope everyone can respect that. Thank you in advance.

Hmmm - not so sure about that. If you take modality and angularity into account that would appear to complicate rather than simplify matters. The usual method would be to look at modality of signifiers after the temperament assesssment had been made.

Interesting idea though. Any other opinions on this?

Regards

Matt

Well, where this could be useful is if you have say 6 points for choleric and 6 for sanguine, except two "points of interest" of choler are in cardinal signs, while all six of the sanguine are in fixed and mutable signs. But your comment "The usual method would be to look at modality of signifiers after the temperament assesssment had been made." sounds like what I've proposed, as far as modality, is already being used in most methods of calculation, just at a different point than what I have suggested. Which makes me feel silly for even posting this. Haha.

Thanks for your reply, though. Right now, I have no other interesting ideas. I'm still trying to sort through all the methods available and decide which makes the most sense to me. And, I have no books! All online study for me, sadly.