13 by Mark Hello Kate, Thanks for joining in. Very nice to have an Irish astrologer's perspective. I find it interesting the 1949 chart for the Irish Republic ( like the UK 1927 chart) gives Ireland an early Sagittarius rising chart similar to the Sibley chart for the USA. Historically, Ireland has enjoyed a close relationship with the USA. Here is the 1949 chart: Here are links to the 1916 Chart: http://members.tripod.com/more_tra/a_ireland.html and the 1922 Chart: http://members.tripod.com/more_tra/a_ire1922_17h.htm In the case of Bill Sheeran I have would like to quote from Bill's interesting comments on another astrology forum which were made 18 months ago. He clearly rejects the 'one and only national chart' approach to mundane astrology. I should say first of all that I am not a great believer in single horoscopes being used as *the* 'birth charts' for nation states. This is partly because nation states are potentially open ended evolutionary processes with long histories. They do not have such clear cut marker points as the physical birth and physical death of human individuals, which delineate one's personal life story to a very large degree. It doesn't make much sense to consider a horoscope for myself for a period ten years before I was born, for example. On the other hand, one can make a good case for taking into account horoscopes for Germany before unification if one wishes to study the modern German state astrologically. My own work on the history of Irish Republicanism, which has so far resulted in a 26 county Republic in 1949 on what is still a politically partitioned island, starts in 1791 with the creation of the Society for United Irishmen. Ireland obviously existed before this time, but one has to start somewhere when studying a process. From an Irish political and ideological point of view, not to mention the anti-monarchic zietgeist of the time (French and American revolutions, etc.) which inspired the foundation of the Soc.Uni.Irishmen, this seems a reasonable choice. Since that time, there have been many important events which have contributed to the overall story. That story has yet to reach its political goal, which is a united 32 county Ireland. If one takes a look at key events, such as the 1798 rebellion, the Act of Union (UK), the formation of the Irish Republican Brotherhood, the foundation of Sinn Fein, the 1916 Rising, the First Dail and War of Independence (which started the same day), the civil war, the foundation of the Irish Free State, the 1937 Irish Constitution, the 1949 Republic of Ireland, one notices certain common astrological patterns. The most conspicuous are emphases on the fixed signs at around 19-26 degrees, and also around 1-3 degrees in the cardinal signs. These degree positions arise in the Society of United Irishmen horoscope for October 14th 1791, in which one sees Mars (21Leo) conjunct Uranus (19 Leo) opposite Pluto (20 Aquarius). Somewhat unconventionally, I actually use the horoscope for a lunar eclipse at 1:30am October 12th 1791 Belfast for the aspirations of Irish Republicanism. This use is based on the frequent involvement of transits to the angles of the eclipse chart and also the eclipse axis itself throughout the unfolding course of Irish Republican history............. The main point to be made about charts such as these, which can be considered like individual frames which combine to make a movie, is that they are 'structurally coupled' by virtue of the fact that they have common degree areas highlighted. Each chart is in effect a set of transits to earlier horoscopes in the series. For example, the current transit of Pluto conjunct the Moon in the Republic of Ireland chart is also in opposition to the Pluto position of the Easter Rising chart, square the Uranus position of the UK chart, and opposite the ASC/MC midpoint of my favoured 1791 lunar eclipse chart for Irish Republicanism. By the way, in the 1949 Republic horoscope, note Pluto in the 8th house, ruled by the Moon. This, combined with the Pluto transit to the Capricorn Moon in the 1st house, is enough to signify the complete collapse of the construction industry, the emergence of toxic revelations about, and disempowerment of, the financial institutions, not to mention the profound transformation of the society as a whole (Moon = the people, in the 1st house) which is currently underway. Similarly, the recent conjunction of Mars and Neptune at 25 Aquarius hits off several of these charts, including that for the Irish Republican Brotherhood, Sinn Fein, the War of Independence and Dail Eireann, the Irish Free State (and, notably that for Northern Ireland - 15:28 Dec 7th 1922). One consequence of this structural coupling is that if one prefers a mono-horoscopic approach to national charts, one will find ample evidence to justify one's choice. Many if not most hop to the same transits. At this stage what I tend to do is work with the horoscope(s) from the series which is/are most relevant to a given context. For example, for the recent Real IRA murders, I'd use a chart for the Real IRA (Nov 6th 1997 dundalk, around 8pm), the horoscope for the 1916 Rising (because a key stated goal, apart from raising as much money from criminal activities as possible, is the implementation of the Proclamation of Independence read out at the start of the Rising). I'd also take a look at what was happening in the lunar eclipse chart from 1791. On the other hand, for contemporary Ireland since the mid 1990s, I'd use the Republic of Ireland 1949 chart, because it is so obviously is radical for the 'new Ireland'. If scenarios arise which have their roots in, or in some way concern pre-Celtic Tiger modern Ireland, I'd use the 1922 Irish Free State chart. A comparison of the 1922 and 1949 horoscopes is very illuminating when considering how Ireland has changed since the mid 1990s. I realise that using a family of horoscopes to understand the nature of a given nation state and its processes is not the norm. On the other hand, I'd quite like to hear a good argument in favour of the conventional approach, maybe using Germany or France as an example. If one uses only the Unification chart for Germany (which many German astrologers do), how does one astrologically study the Bismark era, WWI, Nazi Germany, and so on. Do earlier horoscopes become redundant? If so, then what does one make of the observation that horoscopes for dead people still function, as when transits correlate with the discovery of a new work by Mozart (hypothetically speaking). Traditionally, mundane astrology made little use of individual horoscopes for the beginning of nation states, relying more on ingress charts, eclipses, maybe coronation charts or those for the birth of a monarch, and so on. The importation of natal astrological techniques into mundane astrology is a recent development (since WWII). Nick Campion's Book of World Horoscopes has a good essay on this topic as part of the Introduction. Finally, I don't mean to give the impression that one cannot get a huge amount of insight from studying a single national horoscope, especially the one which 'speaks' to the astrologer. My argument is that firstly there is no such thing as *the* national horoscope, which for me is an idea imported from natal astrology (linked to Pluto's passage through Leo and the astrological work and writings of those born with that position). And secondly, that the historical and socio-political story of a nation state and its peoples is richly enhanced from an astrological view by adopting a process approach and making use of multiple, structurally coupled horoscopes in a creative and appropriate way. Bill Sheeran As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:45 am
14 by Paul I'll also have a look at the chart of 1979, 30 March (Asc 29 canc, Moon 11 Tau). This is particularly relevant now as it's the "birth" of the modern Irish Punt when the parity link with British sterling was broken and an independent exchange rate was introduced. By this reckoning then would you cast a new chart for the introduction of the euro as being the relevant chart? I like the logic behind using the 1922 chart tbh. Quote Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:55 am
15 by Stellarium The 1949 chart Mark posted looks good: Saturn/Leo/9th signifies the tyrannical domination of the catholic church (no longer though). Partile trine with Venus/Aries signifies an obsessional interest in supressing lustful sex, also sexual abuse. Moon/Capricorn/2nd signifies austerity and a need for social climbing through wealth and status. Ireland was known as the poorman of Europe up to mid 90s, then the celtic tiger happened and consumption exploded with a "keeping up with the Jones's attitude", now bust and back to austerity). Mars/Aries/5th is anti-King, Aries is England's sign. Quote Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:50 pm