Tom wrote:. The chart indicates it's all coming to an end though. I don't see enough here to predict the end of his life, but the end of his activities might be at hand.

It's very difficult to oblige people to silence.

In every case this is birth chart, solar return and profection


Profection is not awful, the ruler of the year is Saturn which in Assange birthchart is oriental (did its heliacal rising just a month before the birth), in its triplicity, angular, and agreeing with its hairesis.

Profected MC is on the radical Moon, so fame and support is granted (in my opinion).

The return (I did not relocate the chart) is worse for me, Mars is in the 6th of the return, opposite the return Moon. In every case Mars agrees with its hairesis (solar return is a nocturnal chart).

Mixed year, I would say, but I'm not sure he will be the loser.

margherita

Deb wrote:I had an email today from someone who said s/he was in a position to look at the birth record. This person gave me his/her name but wants to remain anonymous because of uncertainty over whether this is professionally ethical - said that the birth certificate states that Julian Assange was ?born July 3, 1971 at the hour 02:05 PM (or 02:06 PM or 02:08 PM, the copy I saw, was ink-tainted a little bit).?

I?m passing this on as received although I?m not sure how credible it will be, coming from an anonymous source. Interesting to get this information in the form of a ?leak? however
Deb

I always thought that in Australia, like UK and Canada, the birth time is NOT officially recorded on the birth certificate. Perhaps someone could enlighten us on this subject.

margherita wrote: Assange is a very interesting character.
His leaks are what in Italy call "Pulcinella secrets", ie things well known to everybody.

In fact the same Berlusconi replying to WL allegations said that the USA diplomats for their reports copied & past from Italian "communist" newspapers (for Berlusconi communism includes everybody disagreeing with him)....

Writes Assange himself in his old blog:
http://web.archive.org/web/200710200519 ... eatclarity

"Yet just as we feel all hope is lost and we sink back into the miasma, back to the shadow world of ghosts and gods, a miracle arises; everywhere before the direction of self interest is known, people yearn to see where its compass points and then they hunger for truth with passion and beauty and insight. He loves me. He loves me not. Here then is the truth to set them free. Free from the manipulations and constraints of the mendacious. Free to choose their path, free to remove the ring from their noses, free to look up into the infinite voids and choose wonder over whatever gets them though. And before this feeling to cast blessings on the profits and prophets of truth, on the liberators and martyrs of truth, on the Voltaires, Galileos, and Principias of truth, on the Gutenburgs, Marconis and Internets of truth, on those serial killers of delusion, those brutal, driven and obsessed miners of reality, smashing, smashing, smashing every rotten edifice until all is ruins and the seeds of the new. "

margherita

Good point, margherita--most of what has come out so far on WikiLeaks has either appeared in the press, or can be logically deducted from current events/world affairs.

Assange spent years as a computer hacker. He nearly went to jail as a criminal for hacking into the Canadian company Nortel. In light of this sordid past, his comments (above) seem incredibly egotistical and self-serving.

The birth date of the USA is still in dispute, but it is interesting that Assange's arch-enemy, the USA is usually given as either the 2nd or 4th of July--sun conjunct sun!

Deb wrote:I had an email today from someone who said s/he was in a position to look at the birth record. This person gave me his/her name but wants to remain anonymous because of uncertainty over whether this is professionally ethical - said that the birth certificate states that Julian Assange was ?born July 3, 1971 at the hour 02:05 PM (or 02:06 PM or 02:08 PM, the copy I saw, was ink-tainted a little bit).?

I?m passing this on as received although I?m not sure how credible it will be, coming from an anonymous source. Interesting to get this information in the form of a ?leak? however
Deb

Hi Deb

In Australia the birth time is not included on the birth certificate.

If your source is reputable perhaps they saw it in some other document e.g. newspaper announcement, baby book etc.,?

Alice

Hi Alice

I can't say that the source is reliable unfortunately - after making my notice here I forwarded the email on to Frank Clifford who was going to try to contact the source to ask for verification, like a photocopy of the BC - without that I think the information could only qualify for 'dirty data' at best.

For the record, the email claimed to be from someone who was able to check a copy of the birth certificate as kept on the hospital registry files at Townsville Hospital Queensland.

Personally I wouldn't trust data without verification, so even if times are recorded in Australia, I think there has to be some doubts hung over this.

Deb

Deb wrote:Hi Alice

I can't say that the source is reliable unfortunately - after making my notice here I forwarded the email on to Frank Clifford who was going to try to contact the source to ask for verification, like a photocopy of the BC - without that I think the information could only qualify for 'dirty data' at best.

For the record, the email claimed to be from someone who was able to check a copy of the birth certificate as kept on the hospital registry files at Townsville Hospital Queensland.

Personally I wouldn't trust data without verification, so even if times are recorded in Australia, I think there has to be some doubts hung over this.

Deb

Hi Deb

Hospital registry files do record the birth time. In Australia clients often pay a small fee to access these records to get their time of birth.

So your source might be quite accurate!

This also explains the source's concern about his/her ethical right to give out this information as very likely (s)he works at the hospital where Julian was born.

Hopefully Frank will at least be able to vouch for the likely reliability of the source.

On this basis I think it is worthwhile to experiment with the time given.

Alice

Hi Alice

Yes, I was hoping that frank could do a bit of discreet communication to prompt for some means of verification, because without that, I think it is unwise for astrologers to treat the information as anything more than a casual, unsubstantiated report.

With all due respect to those involved, this is unsupported information provided by email from an unknown source. It makes a starting point for casual exploration of the chart, but if we give it too much authority then we take away the incentive for the data to be supported by some kind of evidence (then what is to stop anyone who wants to write about a celebrity horoscope with unknown data to forward a speculative report by email to get their favoured birth time widely accepted?).

I?m not saying that has happened here, just pointing out that we need to treat this as this as ?iffy? information unless the provider can substantiate the report. In hindsight I think it was a mistake for me to be involved in publicising the information ? I now regret that, but have learned a lesson that in future, any data sent to me will be forwarded to someone who can deal with it appropriately.

Deb

I hardly followed the news about wikileaks because I see those 'revelations' as a kind of educated gossip and not really shocking news. Often the intent has contrarily effects.

For example several years ago there were some personal problems of a royal family member with Dutch Queen Beatrix. The family member made several things public. One of the 'disclosures' was that the queen stamps her feet when she is angry.
Gosh, the Queen is human!

Eddy wrote:I hardly followed the news about wikileaks because I see those 'revelations' as a kind of educated gossip and not really shocking news. Often the intent has contrarily effects.

Well, in the case of Italian leaks, they are more than "venial sins".
Berlusconi is described as an old and sick man, passing his nights having sex with teenagers for money, making business with Putin (for his own sake, ie of his economic empire), emptying of every power the Foreign Office Minister, not a nice portrait like the Queen Beatrix stamping her foot.

Anyway the point is these are not "revelations" at all for us, the most read Italian newspapers are writing this since 2 years, it's difficult for me to understand all the mess around Assange.

Half (or more) Italy should be put in a jail, if this is the problem with Assange. As Waybread wrote, whoever read a newspaper could write these "leaks" by him/herself.

margherita

Hello,

Simon-Astley Scholfied comments the birth data in Queensland both on The Moutain Astrologer website and on ADBUSers yahoo groups. Queensland don't have birth time on their birth certificate and hospitals keep birth time less then 21 years (although Sy found people in NSW who found their birth time). Here are the links to the posts:
http://mountainastrologer.com/tma/birth ... an-assange
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADBU ... ssage/1465
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADBU ... ssage/1471
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ADBU ... ssage/1473

I'm not so sure about keeping birth times for only 20 years. I've had a few Australian clients over age 21 who were able to find them - not on birth certificates kept in the hall of records, or whatever it is for one's municipality - but the hospital usually has a record of the time that they'll release to the person - for a fee, of course.

Update from TMA

"True to the spirit of the time (and the Uranus station), several days ago TMA received an (unsolicited) exact birth time for Julian Assange.

Our source has requested anonymity, which we are respecting. Both Tem and I felt that the circumstances through which we got the information, and some other details, suggest that this is an authentic time. The source personally viewed, but was not able to make a copy of, Mr. Assange?s birth certificate.

Update: our source clarified what s/he saw: ?The birth record (is) from the registry which has appended to it a copy of the birth certificate but the hour was not on the certificate but on the record in the registry files.?

Because of ink that was a bit smeared, there is a question of whether the time of birth was 2:05 pm, 2:06 pm. or 2:08 pm on July 3, 1971,
in Townsville, Queensland, Australia (19S09 146E48).

I?ll just make a few quick comments, and open it up for you all to chime in with your fine ideas. What a story!

Birth data for Julian Assange: July 3, 1971; 2:05 pm; Townsville, Queensland"

http://mountainastrologer.com/tma/birth ... an-assange

The accuracy of this sort of thing can always be disputed, but so can anything else. For the moment, it's the best we have.