Rioting broke out in Rome today following Prime Minister Berlusconi narrowing surviving a vote of confidence in the Italian parliament today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11992034

I already predicted the riots on astro.com.Mark.

http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1292259887

Hi Greg,

I already predicted the riots on astro.com.

You certainly suggested the possibility of 'a violent event sometime tomorrow'. And not a Sabian symbol in sight. In the circumstances with people injured congratulations doesn't seem appropriate. Still you certainly picked up the aggressive mood today which could spark into violence.

Just to recap for Skyscript members you picked up the configuration of the Moon in Aries square Mercury/ Mars/ Pluto/ North Node right?

Mark

Mark wrote:Hi Greg,

I already predicted the riots on astro.com.

You certainly suggested the possibility of 'a violent event sometime tomorrow'. And not a Sabian symbol in sight. In the circumstances congratulations doesn't seem appropriate but you certainly picked up the agressive mood mood today which could spark into violence.

Mark

The remarkable thing for me was the exactitude of Moons Sq to Me/MA/PL.

If only I could transfer this talent to the art of football prediction!

I am not seeking to undermine Greg's prediction. He does seem to have identified a key trigger for the Rome riots. However, there seems to be something bigger going on here. The last week has seen violence on the streets and clashes between demonstrators and Police in London, Moscow and Rome. Any thoughts?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easterna ... cows_riots

I am wondering if the ingress of Mars into Capricorn (its exaltation) might be a factor here? This is a very powerful expression of Mars energy. The ingress has also brought it close to Pluto, North Node, and Mercury.

Mark

Mark wrote:I am not seeking to undermine Greg's prediction. He does seem to have identified a key trigger for the Rome riots. However, there seems to be something bigger going on here. The last week has seen violence on the streets and clashes between demonstrators and Police in London, Moscow and Rome. Any thoughts?

I was missing this thread

This is a video where Police fights against I don't know who.
There are NOT the students and the angry and tired people (half Italy) of the morning.

Newspapers call them "black bloc", but in effect nobody know who they are, if they are organised and by who, it's the usual Italian mystery.

In every case since before you opened the thread about the New Moon and London riots of students, here in Rome we already had hard (not violent but widespread in all Rome, they even occupied the central train station and other places of my city) protests from students on November 30th- before the New Moon.

So when the same riots (very quiet for us, we are accustomed to more than this) occurred in London all the Italian newspapers highlighted the news because of the concurrence of the events.

Enjoy the video, I was barricaded at home yesterday, living very near the nice location.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENLL7ToWcmM

margherita

Hi Margherita,

Good to hear from our Italian reporter on the scene!

Margherita wrote:

In every case since before you opened the thread about the New Moon and London riots of students, here in Rome we already had hard (not violent but widespread in all Rome, they even occupied the central train station and other places of my city) protests from students on November 30th- before the New Moon.

Yes there had also been student protests going on in England for weeks before the big clash around the parliamentary vote.

Margherita wrote:

So when the same riots (very quiet for us, we are accustomed to more than this) occurred in London all the Italian newspapers highlighted the news because of the concurrence of the events.

Clearly the English are mere amateurs in such events compared to the Italians, French or Greeks.

Margherita wrote:

Enjoy the video, I was barricaded at home yesterday, living very near the nice location.

Scarey stuff.

I do think its quite remarkable that we have had civil disturbances and violence on the streets of London, Moscow, Rome and now Athens in just the last week. Athens had a large demonstration and national strike today in protest over the Greek government's austerity plans. Events turned violent there too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/world ... reece.html

Equally there was a a large turn out for a demonstration against government austerity plans in Dublin on November 27th. Although this event passed largely peacefully.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11854430

Mark

I wonder whether comparisons can be made with the developments in Italy of the 1930's. In the Netherlands there are developments that are compared with those of the 1930's. Here too we have our local populist madman Geert Wilders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders . Unfortunately his power is still increasing.

The current extremist parties that are increasing all over Europe are different from the extreme-right parties of a few decennia ago. The old extremists were anti-jewish, holocaust-dening and racist, while the new extremists are outspoken pro jewish or rather pro Israel, race seems not to play a significant role and the main point is their anti-islam/muslim attitude. However, it's just a new mutation of an old evil.

Mark wrote:Yes there had also been student protests going on in England for weeks before the big clash around the parliamentary vote.

Hello Mark

I'm surprised that you wrote 'England' because it was widely reported across the print and television media that the protests were all over the UK right from the start.

Also, students didn't just protest locally in Scotland and Wales, for instance, but some got coaches from outside England to London. And obviously the students in Edinburgh aren't all Scots nor the ones in London English.

Clearly the English are mere amateurs in such events compared to the Italians, French or Greeks.

Again you mention English but this just isn't accurate.

As for Britons being supine or whatever word you want to use, it's a persistent myth. If you look at the number of working days lost every year, year after year, due to strikes the UK is near the top of the list along with France. It's just mythology Mark. You've been reading the news about it all so I'm quite surprised you weren't already aware of the whole of the UK students being in revolt about university tuition fees, and of course the majority of students protested in an entirely peaceful manner both in London and UK-wide. It's too simplistic to focus on violence and both simplistic and inaccurate to refer to 'English' or 'England'.

The students have been very coordinated across the UK, rather than dividing themselves into separate parts and saying 'England has nothing to do with us' or 'Scotland has nothing to do with us'. The BBC (large audience, easy to find) has a quote from a student in Edinburgh....

Ledys Sanjuan, a 21-year-old international relations student at Edinburgh University, said: "We will not stand for cuts in education. We will also not accept any rises in tuition fees in England or Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11876501

Regards

H.

Eddy wrote:

I wonder whether comparisons can be made with the developments in Italy of the 1930's. In the Netherlands there are developments that are compared with those of the 1930's.

Yes I raised this myself in a thread earlier this year in the topic entitled Uranus Ingress into Aries and Cardinal T Square.

I dont think its controversial to state the two main socio-economic developments when Uranus was last in Aries ( 1927-1935) was the Great Depression and the rise of expansionist Nazism in Germany and Militarism in Japan. Still, I accept this kind of issue needs more in depth study through previous ingresses of a particular planet.

....The cycles that interest particularly interest me are the aspectual relationships between the planets. Thus I am interested in checking out what previous Uranus-Saturn oppositions or Uranus squares to Pluto have coincided with historically. For example Uranus last squared Pluto in the early 1930's. This ties into dramatic changes in political structures across the world to meet the economic crisis. For example Hitler coming to power in Germany, formation of a National government in Britain, The Miltary take over in Japan and the election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the USA. In the Middle-East the Islamic fundamentalist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was formed by Ibn Saud. In the Soviet Union there was a 2nd Five Year Plan accompanied by a famine. Finally, in South America there was the Chaco war between Bolivia & Paraguay.

History never repeats itself identically so the themes are naturally different 80 years on. Still, the fundamental crisis of political and economic institutions seems to be repeating itself through a severe global recession. The social restructuring and reformation being required across Europe is a process still in motion and it looks like our instutitions will have to 'adapt or die'. This will necessarily have an impact on politics.

Mark

Hi Handn

I'm surprised that you wrote 'England' because it was widely reported across the print and television media that the protests were all over the UK right from the start.

I seem to have touched on a raw nerve here. I am generally very careful when I use the word 'English' and use it rarely as I am all too aware of the complexities and sensitivites that make up the modern United Kingdom. Still, my comment to Margherita was light and tongue in cheek. I didn't anticipate that any member would literally try to unpick this comment as a deep commentary on the socio-ethnic-political realities of modern Britain.

I was primarily focusing on the protests in London which turned violent. I fully accept the proposed changes to tuition fees have galvinised student protest across the UK. And yes there are obviously English students studying in Scotland and vice versa. However, you seem to be ignoring the fundamental point that the changes to tuition fees passed by the UK parliament do not directly effect students based in Scotland or Wales. Education is a devolved issue in these constituent countries within the UK. The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have still to decide their fiscal line on student funding and are being lobbied now. So the whole tuition fees issue was primarily a political issue for students studying in England. Having said that its clear students in England, Scotland and Wales have found common cause in their campaign to secure a decent system of student funding across the whole United Kingdom.

As for Britons being supine or whatever word you want to use, it's a persistent myth. If you look at the number of working days lost every year, year after year, due to strikes the UK is near the top of the list along with France. It's just mythology Mark.

You are rather painting me into a corner of your creation here. I was discussing street demonstrations and possibily violent protest. Strike action is not the same thing. Is it really a myth that nationalities like the French have more of a track record of street protest in modern history than the British? I dont think so. French farmers are a classic example! Naturally, this is a generalisation but that doesn't make the point inherently invaid as you suggest.

However, I do think change is in the air and what may have been true in the past can no longer be taken for granted. I think 2011 is going to see a return of sizeable public protest across Europe. Britain will be no exception.

It's too simplistic to focus on violence and both simplistic and inaccurate to refer to 'English' or 'England'.

England does exist and so do English people! If one cannot describe a demonstration in the heart of London as taking place in England I am mystified when one can ever describe anything as being in England.
Of course its more complex but then so is everything.

As for referring to the violence as 'simplistic' I dont agree. I accept it was done by an unrepresentative minority. This has allowed the wider issue to be clouded in the UK media. Still, this event occured and as astrologers we are surely obliged to try and explain such events. I notice you have made no astrological contribution to this thread.

Mark

I remember a Dutch book of Robert den Doolaard about planetary cycles and events. There's material of him in English and more articles here: http://www.cyclesresearchinstitute.org/ ... cles.shtml

I'm not sure what to think about cycles. The difficulty with cycles is that one might believe that we humans can't influence history. (By the way I want to be honest about me having doubts about astrology from while to while. I'd like to say this explicitly because it would seem strange if I would support statistical research in the philosophy section and speak astrology in other sections of the forum. Anyhow, I don't intend to question issues in the other sections.)

On the other side if cycles indicate societal weakness issues in different periods then we could prepare for it, somewhat like economic cycles. The latter aren't exact either in their outcome and sometimes replaced by new economic cycle theories or corrected, so still it all is useful investigating.

I'd rather prefer to cut the zodiac in 4 parts rather than 12, this gives for Uranus 1927-1949, which is more fitting to the historical issues. Similar quarter in 1843-1866 is also an interesting period: the years of Karl Marx. However the French-German War of 1870-1871 and First World War would be a bit incongruous in this scheme. The issue is finding resemblences between events/periods related to the series but these should be different from events/periods to a certain degree of significance.