What do I think? I'm thinking that I've somehow slipped back into 2004, that's what I think

Well, come on, at least I'm not doing non-stop love-struck horaries anymore! This is my first horary in 10 months, which I think is quite phenomenal considering my past record!

So I guess you're not going to twist the horary a little bit to make the "probably not" or "maybe" into a resounding YES after all, are you? Just like old times, some things never change.

Paul,
Thank you for taking a look at it.

Mars is exalted but combust the sun in a cadent house

My comment about the cadency. While it's true that the Sun and Moon are in a cadent house. However, this third house also signifies:

Letters, rumours, reports, messages and messengers. Communications generally.

The Sun is trying to conjunct Mars, but instead the Moon goes to Mercury, Mercury goes to Jupiter, then Mars gets to Jupiter, and finally the Sun conjuncts Mars.

The way I see it (wishful thinking, undoubtedly, but I think it *could* be read this way) is that the prize is posted online and I learn of it in the third house of communications. When the Sun conjuncts Mars, it is the judges communicating the details of the prize to me. While its true that the third house is considered cadent, however, it is quite relevant in this particular horary and therefore I don't think the cadency counts. While the Sun combust the primary significator is considered combustion, however, as you say yourself, can it really be considered combustion when the Sun in fact also represents one of the major players in the horary?

Maybe you'll come second or third?

May your words come true and may you be forever young!!

(I just threw in the last bit for good measure)

While the Sun combust the primary significator is considered combustion, however, as you say yourself, can it really be considered combustion when the Sun in fact also represents one of the major players in the horary?

I agree - the Sun actually rules the quesited; but something else is problematic with this Sun and its significations that caused me to turn my attention to Jupiter(as explained in my previous post). The Sun is ill-disposed to signify for the 10th since it is in aversion to it!
Jupiter, however, is an entirely different matter

While it's true that the Sun and Moon are in a cadent house

I'm sure this was a typo of yours, since Moon is clearly in the 5th, a succeedent house.

Regards,
Goran

cor scorpii wrote: I'm sure this was a typo of yours, since Moon is clearly in the 5th, a succeedent house.

Maybe he meant Sun and Mars?

Maybe he meant Sun and Mars?

Yes that was a typo, I meant Sun and Mars

The Sun is ill-disposed to signify for the 10th since it is in aversion to it!
Jupiter, however, is an entirely different matter

I'm sorry, I've never quite understood this concept, maybe you can explain this to me?
And whatever that means, does Jupiter still come out the winner???
Thanks very much.

P.S> I'm female

I'm not quite sure, either.

Okay - the MC is Leo, and Sun is in aversion, I understand that. Sun's in Capricorn, and Cap can't see the MC by classical aspect.

Jupiter is the night ruler of Leo (by triplicity), but Jupiter's in Pisces, and Pisces can't see Leo by aspect, either.

According to Masha'allah's teaching, the application of one of the querent's significators to a benefic in a good house, having natural signification of the matter inquired about(which both Jupiter and the 5th here clearly have) brings perfection.

It is true Jupiter doesn't behold the 10th, but he doesn't have to do that since

When relevant rulers do not apply to each other, observe which planet(s) is joined to the Moon or lord of the ascendant. This planet can and will perfect the matter, but only under the following conditions:

a. If the planet applied to is a fortune, and it is in an angle, or in a strong place, the matter will be perfected, and reception is not necessary (although always desirable). The indication ?strong place? refers however to four things:

? Strong through essential dignity
? strong in sect
? strong by phase to the Sun
? Strong by house position

"The Foundations", issue 1, Winter Solstice 2006. by Steven Birchfield&Martien Hermes

Regards,
Goran

Thanks, Goran. I thought you meant Jupiter could see the MC, that's why I was confused.

I'm sorry, I've never quite understood this concept, maybe you can explain this to me?

I'll try

According to Lilly,a planet is ill disposed when
- peregrine, retrograde, combust, and
- cadent from the Asc or the house of the thing demanded so he doesn?t behold the house[30? or 150? from the house] or at least the Lord of the house, although in this respect it is better for the planet to aspect the house rather than the ruler of the house.

Steven Birchfield, "The Living Signs of the Zodiac":

Valens makes a statement in Book I of his 'Anthology' that is rather important. He is specifically discussing the nature of the zoidia and says,

"And all things that the ruler is at times accustomed to produce by its own nature, whether good or base, or lesser or greater, each one of the zoidia will also produce according to whether the figure description of its ruler is operative or unprofitable."

The 'figure description of its ruler' is simply whether or not the zoidion, where the ruler is posited, can or cannot 'see' the ruler's domicile. This infers that it's not necessary for the lord of the zoidion to be in his domicile for the sign to effectively function, but in order to be 'operative' he must see it. The zoidion [and thus the 'house' or 'affairs of life' which were the responsibility of that zoidion] became dysfunctional and adverse when the 'lord' could not see it. This was a serious situation as "the stars found in these zoidia [in aversion] became inharmonious. And sometimes they bring about hostile conditions, sometimes separations and banishments."

Hope this clarifies the issue.

Regards,
Goran

Goran,
Thank you for taking the time to explain this in detail.

Regarding this:

When relevant rulers do not apply to each other, observe which planet(s) is joined to the Moon or lord of the ascendant. This planet can and will perfect the matter, but only under the following conditions:

a. If the planet applied to is a fortune, and it is in an angle, or in a strong place, the matter will be perfected, and reception is not necessary (although always desirable). The indication ?strong place? refers however to four things:

? Strong through essential dignity
? strong in sect
? strong by phase to the Sun
? Strong by house position

In terms of my horary, I believe you are considering the relevant rulers to be Mars and Jupiter or the Moon and Jupiter - yes?

In part (a), it says:

If the planet applied to is a fortune...

are you referring to Mercury as the planet being applied to by the Moon? Or are you referring to Jupiter, which is also being applied to, but the Moon applies to Mercury first. Because if it is Mercury that is being applied to, then Mercury is not in strong shape, and would that really qualify under the rules that you have listed?

If you are referring to Jupiter, then yes, I think the rules of perfection would work here.

Thanks much for your help in understanding this

In terms of my horary, I believe you are considering the relevant rulers to be Mars and Jupiter or the Moon and Jupiter - yes?

No, actually - the relevant rulers are in this case Mars/Moon and the Sun, the ruler of the 10th(quesited matter).

are you referring to Mercury as the planet being applied to by the Moon? Or are you referring to Jupiter, which is also being applied to, but the Moon applies to Mercury first. Because if it is Mercury that is being applied to, then Mercury is not in strong shape, and would that really qualify under the rules that you have listed?

No, Mercury is only carrying the Moon's disposition further to Jupiter, meaning nothing ends with Mercury, i.e. he isn't the final arbiter in this case(luckily!) because if it were, nothing would come of the matter - it is in its detriment and cannot receive the Moon in Pisces+it's a square.

From "Foundations" again

A series of applications culminating in a received application to a benefic will perfect the matter. The only exception to this is cases of life and death in which a benefic happens to be ruler of the eighth house and where in addition there is no reception between the benefic and the significator of the querent; the querent will die of his illness.

The main point is that each planet, as it applies to another planet, commits its disposition to that planet. The applying planet ?pushes? its disposition onto the second planet so to speak. Then the second planet may in turn ?push? its disposition onto yet another, or it might reject the disposition because of lack of reception in which case the matter is destroyed.So whatever planet is last in this chain of applications is very important in determining the outcome of a question. Sahl called this planet the ?receiver of the disposition?, and it decides ultimately whether the matter will be perfected or not. Careful analysis of this planet informs us of how this success or lack thereof will come about. Any affliction of this planet can destroy the matter, even if it was perfected and the promise seemed fulfilled.

True, Jupiter could have been in a better shape since he is out of sect and occidental, in an occidental(feminine) part of the chart - all the factors which lessen his ability to deliver what is promised by his essential dignity.
However, although I don't think you'll win the first prize, I have a reason to believe it may be one of the most desirable ones.

Regards,
Goran

The main point is that each planet, as it applies to another planet, commits its disposition to that planet. The applying planet ?pushes? its disposition onto the second planet so to speak. Then the second planet may in turn ?push? its disposition onto yet another, or it might reject the disposition because of lack of reception in which case the matter is destroyed.So whatever planet is last in this chain of applications is very important in determining the outcome of a question. Sahl called this planet the ?receiver of the disposition?, and it decides ultimately whether the matter will be perfected or not.

Got it! I re-read all of your posts and now I understand fully where you were coming from. Fascinating! Is this Ma'shallah who said this?

Goran, thank you so much for your patience, and I'm hoping that your words come true!

And one more thing - the reason all of the planets are so closely aspecting each other is because as I recall the results will be posted Feb 1st or thereabouts, so the "timing" of the degrees makes sense.

Oh, and for what it's worth - the North Node is in my 2nd house. I know, I know, it has nothing to do with my horary - but it's better than the evil South Node!