OTOH, Bill Clinton has Saturn in Leo in hayz as well, and like or dislike him, his career wasn't anything near that scale. He has Mars in Libra as well, if I remember right.

Thanks Olivia,

Interesting example. I hadn't looked at Clinton's chart before. His famous charisma is well represented by both benefics in the first in Libra and the Moon in Taurus. Mars is in detriment and out of sect in the 1st house closely conjunct Neptune. Considering Mars is Lord 7 in a cardinal sign this reflects well his numerous affairs which was the ultimate cause of his undoing. Saturn ( Lord 5) conjunct Mercury (Lord 12). The big difference with our example chart is that both the dispositors of the malefics are domicile rulers in their sign (Venus & Sun). Despite its detriment Saturn in Leo in Clinton's chart has the compensation of being totally in sect ( in a day chart, masculine sign, above the horizon, oriental of the Sun and free of combustion).

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clinton,_Bill

Mark

Differently from the rest of you I would consider the exchange between Mars and Venus - it should be a "commutatio" following Bezza, maybe generosity in English?

Anyway obviously planets are not very strong, still I consider a testimony, where is required (for example Mars/Venus/Mercury for sexual scandals)

margherita

TED Turner.

Jupiter the saviour !!

Mars in Libra, Saturn in Aries- both in each others fall sign.
Venus in scorpio- Mars in Libra.

Jupiter collects- to prop up Venus- retorgrade application.
Mars apllication by trine.

Jupiter additionally is sextile to Mercury and Saturn.

But, Jupiter is accidentally cadent !

Mercury is in detriment and the 3rd lord is retrograde in the chart of a 'News Mogul' .
The M.C lord is detriment, rerograde, combust and cadent.

Whatever props him up should be good enough to prop anything.


PD

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Turner,_Ted

For such an influential person his natal chart should be compared to planetary cycle charts preceding his birth - in this particular case, Mercury/Sun superior conjunction chart to be precise, because of his involvement with the media. Then also SAN, Aries ingress of the year...and not to forget the lots.

Regards,
Goran

Thanks Goran,

Now, that is a real retrogression ,almost regression-going back before birth

What would any practising astrologers may have said if Ted Turner's mom consulted them when he was a baby.There should be something in the preliminary scan of a nativity which should suggest that we need to go back in time or do you routinely look at the lunation before birth like those in the Mesopotamian charts.


Maybe, just the mythology of Inana would explain quite a bit !! mocking her is not a good idea - so I read.

PD

The basic idea behind my previous post is that the natal charts of influential/powerful people very often show strong and meaningful connections to larger planetary cycles preceding their birth which thus embed them more prominently into certain society - they help them rise at a certain point in time, so to speak, to distinguish themselves from the masses.
That's probably the reason why some people become prominent/powerful/influential whereas most of the others do not.
Natal chart alone may not reveal the secret of 'success' to full extent.

Take Hitler as an example.

The syzygy preceding his birth(full moon, the Moon being the chart luminary in Libra) occupies exactly the same degrees as his natal ascendant-descendant axis.
Aries ingress preceding his birth has the ascendant on his lot of fortune, its MC falls directly on the degree of his lot of basis, whereas his natal conjunction of the Moon(ruler of the fortune) and Jupiter(ruler of the lot of basis) are angular in the ingress chart - in the 7th, exactly on the descendant.
The ruler of the Aries ingress,Mars in Aries, is on the degree of Hitlers natal Mercury in Aries in the 7th, which happens to rule his lot of exaltation.
How did he become famous(exalted), how did he gain his position in life/history books afterward? It was the WWII, the greatest conflict/slaughter in human history! His lot of exaltation also 'happens' to land in the radical 12th(whole-sign), the house of "bad spirit."
Last but not least, the conjunction of the superiors preceding his birth(1881) has Hitler's natal Sun(chart luminary) on it. Jupiter from this conjunction rules the 7th and the 4th, and happens to dispose Mars exactly on the cusp of the 7th in Pisces. Thus Hitler's Sun(ambition, influence, power, actions and reputation - it rules his 10th) sucks up the epoch's 'source and outcome' of the urge for strife/conflict/war. Is it a mere coincidence that he was obsessed(among other things) with "Drang nach Osten", "Lebensraum" "Blut und Boden" themes? Jupiter in this conjunction chart has to do with territory/land, ancestors as well as with conquest and conflict, by disposing Mars in the 7th, as already stated.

Greetings,
Goran

Thank you Steven!

cor scorpii wrote:The basic idea behind my previous post is that the natal charts of influential/powerful people very often show strong and meaningful connections to larger planetary cycles preceding their birth which thus embed them more prominently into certain society - they help them rise at a certain point in time, so to speak, to distinguish themselves from the masses.
That's probably the reason why some people become prominent/powerful/influential whereas most of the others do not.
Natal chart alone may not reveal the secret of 'success' to full extent.

Hello,

This bit about comparison of SAN & Aries Ingess charts to the native chart sounds interesting. Could you point me to some further reading on this topic? I searched the forums, but didn't find much.
I am aware that some texts on nativity delineations include looking at SAN chart and Ingess Chart as steps in judging the nativity, but I am yet to find more about it.