13 by Mark The 1762 Jupiter Saturn conjunction is very interesting and works as well as the others, but it is the same thing: one chart is better than the others. It is further complicated by the fact that Washington DC did not exist in 1762. The land that ultimately became DC existed (called Foggy Bottom at the time) but there was no US Capital because there was no US. So when did the USA become the USA and where and what time? The arguments are endless. Hi Tom, I seem to remember Steven Birchfield said he would post up something on this last year. Did he ever get back to you on this? I am personally looking at foundational ingress charts for most countries. The USA is easy in that respect. Although deciding a key date is not always clear cut for older cultures. For example, China or the United Kingdom. In the case of China do we adopt the date for the first Chin dynasty, the date China became a Republic or the Communist take over? Regarding the USA I still look at national charts too. The Sibly and USA Federal Government charts in particular. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:20 pm
14 by Tom Just for the record, I agree that national charts have value, but the eternal question is: which chart? And the USA is no better than many others, but the dates and times of the various charts are closer together. US Independence was declared (but not ratified) on July 4 1776, but surely there is more to the USA than its independence. Do the Jamestown charts have any value (settled 1607)? The Plymouth charts? The current US government was established in 1789. But do we use ratification? Washington's inauguration? Some other date? So there are an ample number of charts from which to choose. Morin would have preferred national charts, but understood how difficult it was to establish a date and time for such a "nativity." So the Aries Ingress was chosen as it is always available. The irony is that due to inaccurate tables, Morin never calculated an accurate Aries Ingress in his life. Quote Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:25 pm
15 by granny_skot for Pre - John Adams I always use Philadelphia, that is where congress met, so the capital of the time. I dont see a problem with a capital moving with a countries growth? well a thought anyway. Granny Quote Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:16 pm
16 by Lunlumo A strange thing, so far dozens if not hundreds of astrologers have not been able to agree on a reliable US-chart ? This means... a) a dramatic lack of abilities and knowledge among these astrologers (certainly not ?) or: b) There can't be found any "true" chart because there isn't any. (Hmm - which alternative do we prefer??) Providing b) is true: a state without a true chart ? This would doubtless mean a state with a serious lack of identity, wouldn't it? Regards, LL Quote Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:51 pm
17 by GR Hi Lunlumo, While I can certainly believe there's a lot of A involved, we have to keep in mind that not everybody is on the same page regarding mundane astrology. Many of the older methods were all but forgotten or deliberately ignored for a long time. With different approaches, seems inevitable that there are going to be problems reconciling them. Gabe Quote Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:36 pm
18 by granny_skot so many older states were marked by the coronation of a monarch, which was easier to chart, The Day of 4th of July rings true for most things american, but you can't put a time on it, because its not really when the document was signed. if we did it by coronation, we'd have a new chart every 4-8 years, so I suspect that isn't a great idea either. I think its easier to do charts for the individual states than it is to do for the whole US. Anyway, I dont think its so much a problem with the astrologers as it is a new way of dealing with countries. :)just my two cents... I wonder what Thomas Jefferson considered the country chart, he was an astrologer after all... Granny Quote Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:43 am