Mark wrote:

One to note particularly is the URt sq to Egypts Sun (Leader/Mubarrak) at 28 GEM

It may be a factor but it offers us no explanation as to the timing. Uranus has been floating around such degrees for ages. Why now? I think the ingress of Jupiter back into Aries is much more important here. Its entry into Aries almost exactly coincides with the civil unrest breaking out in Egypt. Jupiter is the ascendant ruler in the foundational ingress chart of 1953. It rules the ascendant and MC in the Solar eclipse of January 4th. Jupiter is also the dispositor of the Sun and MC in the last Lunar eclipse.

Mark

That is correct but the "triggers" are harder to find, otherwise we would be able to predict this in advance rather than choose the lesser factors only after hindsight. There must be a way of combining the various factors so that we can see these things coming!

Jupiters advancing square to Pluto strongly suggests that the anger and resentment have quite awhile to run yet before reaching calmer waters.

ps. you say that the Jupiter Ingress is vitally important but you haven't posted it?

greg

As Pankajdubey writes Islam is ruled by Venus. True?
One has to differ between the religion itself and its organization.
The latter one is certainly governed by Venus/Taurus - the mass of people...
But a religion that concentrates on a black stone in Mecca ist essentially goverened by Saturn - and Moon - see all those half-moons on the flags.
It's interesting that the Moon's node at the first degree of Capricorn has hardly been taken into account. The Node at the first degree is always critical.

LL

As Pankajdubey writes Islam is ruled by Venus. True?
One has to differ between the religion itself and its organization.
The latter one is certainly governed by Venus/Taurus - the mass of people... But a religion that concentrates on a black stone in Mecca ist essentially goverened by Saturn - and Moon - see all those half-moons on the flags.

We already discussed this subject extensively on these threads:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3247

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5205


And yes nearly all traditional authorities agree Islam is represented by the planet Venus. However, some non-Islamic traditional astrologers such as Cardano have differed and suggested Islam is symbolized by Mars. In terms of signs though its definitely Scorpio not Taurus that is traditionally linked to Islam and the Arabs. This association is largely due to the Saturn/Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio that occured before Prophet Mohammed's birth.

For the example the medieval Jewish astrologer Ibn Ezra states:

The conjunction (of Saturn and Jupiter) that took place before the emergence of the Muslims' prophet, according to their opinion, occurred in the sign of Scorpio.

As Lunlumo states though the crescent Moon is very common in Islamic countries flags. There are various theories for this. Firstly, the old Byzantine empire used this symbol and much of its former territory became Islamicised. Then there is the central importance of the Moon in the Islamic calendar with observance of prayer times and periods such as Ramadan. There is also a theory that Islam adopted this symbol from the older Goddess worshipping religion in Arabia. However, no traditional astrological authority ever suggested Islam was linked to the Moon. The reason is that the Moon was a symbol of a point of view that distrusted religion. It symbolized apostasy, and sceptics. So if you want a symbol for modern humanism/scepticism the Moon is the natural fit traditionally due to its fickle, inconstant associations.

Mark

Greg wrote:
That is correct but the "triggers" are harder to find, otherwise we would be able to predict this in advance rather than choose the lesser factors only after hindsight. There must be a way of combining the various factors so that we can see these things coming!

Only if we had infinite time and resources. I dont know about you but I have a rather busy life and dont do mundane astrology 24/7. Even if I did/could are you seriously proposing we all scan potential trouble spots from the 200 odd nations on the planet and spot where problems are coming up? Look at how much work is involved in studying one country?

The ancient and medieval astrologers didn't have that problem. They would be employed by the King or Emperor to study developments for that one country and its immediate neighbours. Now though we have trouble spots all over the planet. We skip from Russia, to Australia to Egypt. Our scope is broader but necessarily more superficial. Mundane is the most complex of all the forms of astrology precisely because so many factors need to be considered. I have long thought that the best way to resolve this would be for groupings of astrologers to at least specialise in specific parts of the world.

On a personal note I would not pretend to be an authority on mundane astrology. Equally, though my reference on Jupiter was not something I made up after the event to look clever. I was following traditional astrological rules for eclipse charts.

http://www.antonblog.net/translations/m ... volutions/

Using these rules Jupiter stands out in the solar and lunar eclipse charts and the foundational ingress chart. These techniques are fairly new to me but I will be looking at them closely in all further eclipse charts. Hopefully that will improve my ability to discern developments beforehand. However, I dont think we should ever just rely on one technique. I exploring other traditional techniques that are currently neglected such as firdaria, profections and solar returns in relation to mundane astrology.

ps. you say that the Jupiter Ingress is vitally important but you haven't posted it?

It wasn't a Jupiter ingress chart I was highlighting. I was rather putting this transit into the context of Jupiter moving by sign into a cardinal sign and its role as dispositor of the MC in the solar, lunar and Capricorn ingress. Jupiter was on the ascendant of the solar return chart and ruled the ASC and MC. Jupiter ruled the MC , Sun and Mercury in the lunar eclipse chart. Jupiter was also the Almuten of the MC in the Capricorn ingress. Plus Jupiter ruled the ascendant of the 1953 ingress. That is significant as it ties the Egyptian people into these charts. Its a fair point though that I couldn't be sure the ingress would activate these events immediately although it was a possibility. Any point up to the Saturn opposition might have set these events off. From a modern perspective you can take succour from Jupiter being the dispositor of Uranus!

Mark

It's interesting that the Moon's node at the first degree of Capricorn has hardly been taken into account. The Node at the first degree is always critical.

Hi
It's noticeable that Jupiter is square to the nodes currently at its furthest North in relation to the nodal axis (ie I'm not talking about declination or latitude, just being 90 degrees to nodes). Jupiter/Node has a strong flavour of community action anyway . Being at that Northern "bending" it seems highly pertinent that events on the streets of Egypt are mass actions of people taking matters into their own hands.
mike c

This is the crisis not of some corrupt politicians - it is fundamentally the crisis of societies ruled by traditional laws of Islam - it is actually a clear indication of the decline of that religion and its authorities.

Hello Lunlumo,

I dont agree with some of your conclusions above. Its not quite correct to state Tunisia or Egypt have been ruled by the 'traditional laws of Islam' as you suggest above. That would involve complete shariah law and their governments have staunchly resisted Islamicist pressure to do so. What Egypt has is a kind of compromise between Sharia law and a western secular legal system. Shariah law in Egypt applies only in personal status issues - such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody of children. Otherwise the legal system is entirely a secular one, on the model of the French legal system. Egypt incorporates Islamic law into its constitution by making Islam the official religion of the country and Islamic jurisprudence the principal source of legislation. Sharia courts and judges, qadis, are run and licensed by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, not by mosques.

Islamists in Egypt are pressing for Sharia law to be applied in all areas of the legal system. A non-religious Supreme Court operates above the Sharia personal status courts and the secular criminal courts. Religious minorities in Egypt are governed under separate personal status laws and courts. Coptic Christians in Egypt marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin.

Tunisian law represents a similar compromise between the two systems:

http://genderindex.org/country/tunisia

I also think you are quite mistaken in thinking Islam is entering a phase of decline. The statistics for population growth in the Islamic world prove that. Islam is on track to outstrip Christianity as the largest world religion in the decades to come. I think we are seeing a political transformation going on in several Muslim countries. However, that transformation should not be construed as religious decline as you seem to be suggesting. Quite the reverse!

Demographically, what underlines this is population structures now weighted towards those under 30 rebelling against the old order. Hence the desire for political change has a generational basis undelying it.

Still your research on Saudi Arabia is very interesting. This would obviously have major ramifications for the world economy if you are right. I would want to spend much more on this before I could form a view myself. We are certainly seeing the protests against corrupt regimes moving to the Arabian peninsula ie Yemen. This is already worrying the money markets. Its also interesting that the modern state of Saudi Arabia was formed during the last Uranus -Pluto square (1932) and we are now seeing another one develop.

Mark

Hi Mark,
you're right as far as Tunisia is concerned, maybe Egypt as well.
But I do wonder if over the forthcoming years Islam will be able to cope with the Western impact. So far - apart from Iran's obvious attempt to get the A-bomb - for decades, if not centuries -nothing really innovative has been born there, and if so it was more or less in contrast to Islam. What would lots of these states, mainly Saudi-Arabia, be without their oil? Third world countries. - Well, I'm afraid your text probably deserves a comment with more profound arguments...

Maybe apart from the other charts given above this one may give some more insight: SAT/JU conj. 610. Venus strong, but the moon seems to be a key to that chart. Banned into house twelve: the suppression of emotional and female qualities.
See PL tr opp. Moon in that chart, not to mention the forthcoming UR/PL aspects ...
LL

But I do wonder if over the forthcoming years Islam will be able to cope with the Western impact.

Western impact?
Did you actually mean Western decline? Western societies are maybe still more powerful than the Islamic world in terms of military might and technological advancement, but these things do not and cannot prevent western demise and catastrophe which is looming on the horizon. Just wait for the second wave of financial meltdown coming in the US that is going to plunge the world in a financial chaos.

Look how all the might of NATO isn't sufficient to break the backbone of Taliban in Afghanistan! The asymmetric kind of warfare employed there against the US led coalition is proving be very successful - I think nobody can seriously challenge this statement. The fact is, they're losing the war.
It's actually the other way around. I wonder if the 'west' is going to be able to cope with Islamic impact, first and foremost in Europe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIF ... r_embedded#

If someone is losing the 'race', it is definitely the West, especially in the long run. Despite, and perhaps better to say, because of its technological advancement.
For instance,as this clip clearly shows, Germany is going to be a Muslim state by 2050. just like many other European states.

Goran

Hello Mark,

I'd like to point out that the solar eclipse chart presented here doesn't seem to be correct. I've noticed that the Moon/Sun conjunction is still 6 minutes away from being exact; and my ephemeris says(as well as Astrodienst) the conjunction happens at 9:02 UT.
This gives us cardinal angles with Aries on the ascendant, Capricorn on the MC.

Regards,
Goran

I'd like to point out that the solar eclipse chart presented here doesn't seem to be correct. I've noticed that the Moon/Sun conjunction is still 6 minutes away from being exact; and my ephemeris says(as well as Astrodienst) the conjunction happens at 9:02 UT. This gives us cardinal angles with Aries on the ascendant, Capricorn on the MC.

Hi Goran,

Following many traditional authorities (Ptolemy, Cardano etc) I dont base an eclipse chart on the zodiacal conjunction along the ecliptic but the time of greatest visual obscurity during an eclipse.

The traditional basis of this is discussed in this thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5407

As you can see there is something of a debate on what is the 'correct' kind of eclipse chart! The only time I work with eclipse charts using zodiacal conjunction is when the eclipse is not visible from that location. However, using that kind of eclipse chart is much less common in traditional sources. Of course its a matter of choice. I am not seeking to impose this more 'visual' approach used by the ancients on anyone else.

I got my information from the NASA website:

Greatest eclipse [2] occurs at 08:50:35 UT in northern Sweden where the eclipse in the horizon will have a magnitude of 0.858. At that time, the axis of the Moon's shadow will pass a mere 510 km above Earth's surface. Most of northern Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia also lie in the penumbra's path. The citizens of Cairo (0.551), Jerusalem (0.574), Istanbul (0.713), and Tehran (0.507) all witness a large magnitude partial eclipse.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/OH/OH2011. ... 2011Jan04P

If any members still think I got this wrong in some way please feel welcome to post their comments. I dont want to perpetuate errors by myself or anyone else.

Mark

Hello Mark,

your explanation is very much appreciated.
Thanks

Regards
Goran

Goran wrote:

For instance,as this clip clearly shows, Germany is going to be a Muslim state by 2050. just like many other European states.

Hi Goran,

I wouldn't disagree that the number of Muslims in Europe has increased both due to immigration from Islamic countries and higher birth rates amongst Muslims on average. However, its not been increasing at anything like the rate claimed in these kinds of You Tube clips. I would urge considerable caution before accepting information like this on You Tube. Much of the information there is completely exaggerated and presented in a rather hysterical tone. Quite simply much of the so called evidence presented just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. In response to the hits these kind of You Tube clips are getting the BBC issued this article which takes a sober looks at the facts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm

The people posting these kind of over simplistic clips have a political and religious agenda which clearly seeks to create fear and resentment against Muslims in the west.

Mark