Goran, discussions like these should be based on astrological evidence, shouldn't they?
When I talk of the "West" I do not mean US military power. I mean what we call "Western" civilization, including what is generally called "human rights" -a civilization which must not be restricted to certain areas.

Islam had its great time in the centuries from 600 til, say 1500. Around 1500 "Western" civilization gradually began to take shape (Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment etc.) Ever since that time Islam has not been able to be "productive", really innovative - in whatever respect (social, economical, technical ... - and, yes: cultural). As I said - without their oil e.g. Saudi Arabia would be a third world country.
The fact that we have been faced with a revival of Islam can certainly not be ignored - its motivation and strength however are for the greater part rooted in frustration and partly hate (see Iran e.g.). In fact this is the expression not of strength but of weakness.
I agree, there will be another crisis in the "West", for the greater part a monetary one (2012-2014). It might shake the fundamentals of our societies - it will not, however, reveal the "superiority" of Islam.
And Germany will most certainly not be a state governed by Islam and its archaic structures. This indeed would be a real catastrophe.
I do not see anything like that in the charts for Germany, do you ? (e.g. Berlin 24th May, 1949, 0:00 = 23rd 1949, 22:00 GMT / or: January 1st, 1871, 0:00 local time.)

LL

Hi, LL

It might shake the fundamentals of our societies - it will not, however, reveal the "superiority" of Islam.

I think you misunderstood my point - I never said Islam is really inherently superior in any way to the West; but that the time is coming when the West is going to lose its preeminence(to put it mildly).
You don't need an awful lot of strength, skill or courage to harass or even kill a sick man.

Goran, discussions like these should be based on astrological evidence, shouldn't they?

Certainly - but where's the astrological evidence to your claim that Islam is hardly going to survive the 'impact' of the West(whatever that impact may mean)? I think Islam is on the rise - I just hope there wont be any such thing as war with them. Why?
Well, Turkey's is the second strongest army in NATO(and Turkey is clearly siding with Iran&Syria,after "humanitarian flotilla for Gaza" incident in May last year),Egypt has an advanced, strong army built by the US and they never ceased to consider Israel their main enemy, Iran is also not going to disappear and they are likely to go nuclear in a foreseeable future,Saudis purchased US arms in worth of 60 billion $, etc.
What I'm trying to say is - one shouldn't do mundane astrology and at the same time turn a blind eye to the reality on the ground. And the reality looks pretty bleak, since there will be a war in the Middle East, soon. This one is going to shake all of us, no matter which continent we live on.

I agree, there will be another crisis in the "West", for the greater part a monetary one (2012-2014)

Good.Then we both see the same thing coming and we don't even need astrology for it, do we?

When I talk of the "West" I do not mean US military power. I mean what we call "Western" civilization, including what is generally called "human rights" -a civilization which must not be restricted to certain areas.

A very complicated issue, but only two or three remarks: the main US bargaining chip in many of its relations with other countries(especially when these other countries don't exactly correspond to the model designated for them by the US) was and is their military power. Not a very civilized behavior of a superpower allegedly supposed to represent a beacon of democracy and freedom to the world.
Do you really still believe our world(or the US, for that matter) functions clearly and consistently along the lines of "democracy" and "human rights"? Or is it, pure and simple, money and interests? I think the latter is the case, whereby the former is very often used as an excuse and justification for the enforcement of the latter.
http://www.debka.com/article/20616/
http://debka.com/article/20604/ (Just as a side-note: this source can by no means be characterized as anti-western propaganda tool.)
History and present are replete with the examples of such behavior on the part of the US.
And when they depend on someone for taking care of their vital interests(Saudi Arabia and oil) then the so-called "human rights" are irrelevant and not even mentioned; you can behead, hang and maim as much as you want, as long as you support the vital interests of the US.
Very hypocritical.

I do not see anything like that in the charts for Germany, do you ? (e.g. Berlin 24th May, 1949, 0:00 = 23rd 1949, 22:00 GMT / or: January 1st, 1871, 0:00 local time.)

I haven't looked into any mundane chart concerning Germany so far, but it may be a good idea to do it.
Again, Germany is a part of a much larger entity and I don't thing its destiny is somehow free from potential afflictions suffered by the other members of the EU - precisely because Germany is its leading member.

Regards,
Goran

Hello Lunlumo/Goran,

I agree with Lunlumo that our statements here should be backed up by astrological analysis. I also concur with Goran that our mundane astrology should not occur in vacuum. We do need to consider the deeper historical , social, economic and political issues underlying our mundane charts. However, as is evident here how we assess such evidence depends on our basic ideological perspective.

Anyway, I want this thread to get back to some real astrology. Ultimately, that is what this forum is for. Not just espousing our personal political or religious beliefs.

Thanks

Mark

Mark wrote: If any members still think I got this wrong in some way please feel welcome to post their comments. I dont want to perpetuate errors by myself or anyone else.

Mark

I should take my revenge for a past thread

Maximum eclipse in Cairo according NASA is 10:30

so this is the chart
just two short considerations:

1) the effects of this eclipse are not immediate because the sizygy is near the MC, so either we should judge the event from a previous eclipse, or we should ready to see more since the summer.

2) Egypt is ruled by Venus and Libra, and here Venus is in debility in Scorpio, but it has some importance in the chart because it rules by exaltation the following angle to the eclipse, and the conjunction by triplicity.

3) I hope - unfortunately without any astrological considerations, but let me say- the eclipse could sweep away even the patron of Mubarak' "niece"

margherita

I should take my revenge for a past thread

Hi Margherita,

I did ask for this didn't I?

The lesson being never tease a Scorpio Moon....
I take it that is why you have taken so so long to point this error out. In true Scorpio/Sicilian style.

Maximum eclipse in Cairo according NASA is 10:30

Can you please show where you are citing the time of maximum eclipse located for Cairo from the NASA website? I think all members following this thread would lighht to see where you tracked this down.

I cited the NSAS site myself earlier. I was a bit worried when it said this was the time of maximum eclipse located in Sweden by UT. It did occur to me local times had to vary.

On the plus side that chart is still ruled by Jupiter on both ASC/DESC.

Egypt is ruled by Venus and Libra

I seem to recall that kind of generalised association made in a few traditional texts. However, have you actually found them reliable in real charts?

Mark

Mark wrote: I take it that is why you have taken so so long to point this error out. In true Scorpio/Sicilian style.

To be honest I was more concentrated on primary directions thread and I missed this.

Can you please show where you are citing that specific information on the time of maximum eclipse located for Cairo from the NASA website?

I never could lie in public like that :oops

It did occur to me local times had to vary.

Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos, II, 6

Inasmuch as the eclipses which take place at the same time are not completed in the same number of ordinary hours in every locality, and since the same solar eclipses do not everywhere have the same degree of obscuration or the same time of duration, we shall first set down for the hour of the eclipse, in each of the related localities, and for the altitude of the pole, centres, as in a nativity;

I seem to recall that association in a few traditional texts. However, do you think they are still really reliable in practical terms?

Yes, at least for countries known to ancients.

margherita

To be honest I was more concentrated on primary directions thread and I missed this.

I am beginning to think you folks need your own website devoted to that subject. That thread is getting a tad too long to really follow all the way through.

Thanks very much for the visual insert of the info. However, I really wanted the link on the NASA site so I could search out this kind of information myself in future. I am sure other members feel the same.

the effects of this eclipse are not immediate because the sizygy is near the MC, so either we should judge the event from a previous eclipse, or we should ready to see more since the summer.

Where are you getting this assessment from? In short why should a sizygy close to the MC delay its effect?

Mark

Mark wrote:
Thanks very much for the visual insert of the info. However, I really wanted the link on the NASA site so I could search out this kind of information myself in future. I am sure other members feel the same.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JSEX/JSEX-index.html

Where are you getting this assessment from? In short why should a sizygy close to the MC delay its effect?

From Ptolemy in the same II book and following all his commentators, Lilly included. That's from An Easie and Familiar method to judge the Effects depending on the eclipses.
margherita

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JSEX/JSEX-index.html

Im grateful.

From Ptolemy in the same II book and following all his commentators, Lilly included. That's from An Easie and Familiar method to judge the Effects depending on the eclipses

Thank you again! I have that text somewhere. Time I did a bit more study and less posting....

Mark

Well I've been busy and haven't had a moment to check into the forum, so now I am not only late to the party (discussion) But I'd like to make a suggestion for you to all really be annoyed with me... Someone suggested looking at Mubarak's presidential beginning, I would propose you look a few days earlier instead to the Assassination on 6 October 1981 in Cairo of Anwar Sadat. M. was of course his VP. I just think that not only are the seeds of this issue far more evident in that chart, BUT you notice they want M's VP to stand in while they work on elections... somehow it seems a bit like history repeating itself.

anyway I think the Capricorn Moon of the assassination, not to mention pluto, jupiter and SAturn Placements in relation to January solar eclipse, the full moon chart of the 19th and then the onslaught of protests on 24 january 2011 you will find a much more interesting set of charts. Also I think more directly related to the issues.

for instance the Venus uranus Conj in Scorpio in 1981 is Trine the Jupiter uranus Conjunction in 2011 benefits from chaos... Also Venus of the protest chart is trine Mars of the assassination chart, well just all kinds of interesting connections.

Granny

forgot to mention solar eclipse of 4th conj moon of sadat assass.

I would propose you look a few days earlier instead to the Assassination on 6 October 1981 in Cairo of Anwar Sadat.

Hi Granny,

An excellent suggestion. I was thinking along the same lines originally but I think I got a bit sidelined somehow to his official swearing in as President which was on October 14th. I couldn't locate a time for that. In de facto terms I think you are quite right though as Mubarak did take over effective power following the assassination of Sadat. I couldn't find a time when I originally looked but I have checked again and Sadat died on Oct. 6, 1981 in Cairo. The following source gives a time of 2.40pm for Sadat's death although it seems to have the wrong date ie the 7th.

http://middleeast.about.com/od/egypt/a/me081006a.htm

This source says he died two hours after the attack at the military parade in Cairo. This time was earlier than the official announcement.

http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review ... 4163167-5/

Anyone read Arabic? It might help get to the bottom of this.

Mubarak used the assassination as justification to declare martial law. Its effectively never been lifted.

Mark

Lifting the Emergency Power Law was Pres. Obama's main suggestion in his statement yesterday, which is one of the reasons I attach the incident mainly to the assassination and the eclipse. It is why elections are pretty much ridiculous as no one may openly say anything against the government under that law and several opposing groups have been outlawed, in effect making it a one party group. In any case I think its a very good fit astrologically speaking.

Granny