Which is the ruler of the house?

Saturn in Libra with essential dignities: exaltation, triplicity, terms

OR

Venus with just the domicile?

Both are direct, and angular.

My inclination is Saturn. But I'd like to see what others think.

junibus wrote:
I would welcome a really bonafide, comprehensive, coherent, consistent,
logic rather than just a simple preference of certain author, or because thats how you were initially taught, etc

Sincerely

Jun

That's the problem isn't it?
I would trade all the logic for a method that works tho.
That said, I personally enjoyed both AstroJin's and Clelia's take on the situation.

Hello:

Night Sky wrote:Which is the ruler of the house?

Saturn in Libra with essential dignities: exaltation, triplicity, terms

OR

Venus with just the domicile?

Both are direct, and angular.

My inclination is Saturn. But I'd like to see what others think.

I agree that Saturn seems more powerful, but maybe it would be helpful to know if the chart is nocturnal or diurnal and which of both is in sect:-)

Clelia

Hello:

steven wrote:Hi Yuzuru,

the quote in Dorotheus is in the section called Knowledge of what indicates whether the native and his mother are slaves or free:

You want to look at the terms of the Sun and the Moon and the Ascendant, so that it is known whether the lord of the term is masculine or feminine (the feminine planets are Saturn, Venus, and the Moon; the masculine ones [are] the Sun, Jupiter, and Mars).

There you have it

Steven

You certainly got it!

But let me say that even with this plain words Dorotheus seems controversia if you read the book as a whole. For example, in this quote from the same excerpt he says:

"Look:if you find the Sun and Saturn in the sixth or twelfth or eighth or four judge for his father misfortune in his condition"

In the same page Dorotheus gives advice for the father ( which is masculine, that is for sure ) using Saturn and the Sun, and do not use them as the mother?s significators.

Clelia

Hello:

That's the problem isn't it?
I would trade all the logic for a method that works tho.
That said, I personally enjoyed both AstroJin's and Clelia's take on the situation.

First of all, thanks for your appreciation

Perhaps because astrology is so tricky it excites me so much and for so long: as the sphinx, she is always ready to devour us and for survive we have to decipher it every day!

Cl?lia

Perhaps Saturn is feminine in actions, but masculine in appearance?

Tzadde wrote:Perhaps Saturn is feminine in actions, but masculine in appearance?

May be

And what kind of actions are feminine, can you clarify this a little further?

Clelia

Thank you steven is good that my memory is not betraying me yet :-)

The sentence in the ?Umar version of Dorotheus, saying Saturn is feminine (I 10, 18 ), has no parallel in the Greek Dorotheus fragments, so it may even be a later insertion found already in the Pahlav? version. Anyway, it's neutral according to the Yavanaj?taka (1, 115) and subsequent Indian literature.
Just to stir it up: an Arabic-based interpolation in Porphyry (53) claims Mercury is feminine but tells nothing about Saturn.

Hello Levente:

Levente Laszlo wrote:The sentence in the ?Umar version of Dorotheus, saying Saturn is feminine (I 10, 18 ), has no parallel in the Greek Dorotheus fragments, so it may even be a later insertion found already in the Pahlav? version.

If it is a late insertion it can explain why Dorotheus is so controversial on this kind of matter.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Clelia

Clelia Romano wrote:And what kind of actions are feminine, can you clarify this a little further?

I don't know how (and what) Dorotheus has considered [something as being] feminine or masculine, so I can't be sure on this matter.

What I know for sure is Dorotheus was the only one astrologer in the history of traditional Astrology who claimed this assertion, Saturn being feminine. Those before him never clarified which gender Saturn have, and those after him said Saturn is masculine. So I don't think it really matters, as I am pretty sure Saturn is masculine.

Tzadde wrote:[What I know for sure is Dorotheus was the only one astrologer in the history of traditional Astrology who claimed this assertion, Saturn being feminine. Those before him never clarified which gender Saturn have, and those after him said Saturn is masculine. So I don't think it really matters, as I am pretty sure Saturn is masculine.

Very clear reasoning

Thank you!

Clelia