Clelia Romano wrote:Hello:

Konrad said:

you are quite right in your point about similar charts, my main problem with looking at the Rock's chart in Regiomontanus however, was that I couldn't see much of what he has become present in it. With Mark's help, I am seeing a little more than I was.

As for things like social status etc, I have considered that. His grandfather and father both were wrestlers too, although they achieved nowhere near the success and acclaim he did, in fact there are only two other wrestlers who have ever reached his heights and that is why I am still unsure as to where that is represented in the chart. The fixed stars may have some merit but I, myself, have Spica and Arcturus culminating with Rigel setting and I have had little success or acclaim in my life. I would like to make clear I am not dismissing their usage, but it does lead me to think that there must be more to this particular chart than bright stars on the angles which is there with Valens but not so apparent in Regiomontanus]

Hello:

To verify eminence in a chart the position of the Sun is very important. A nocturnal nativity cuts out fame by a half, exception made if the Sun is in the 5th.
In the present case, using Hellenistic procedures, and I have to say that my field is much more Medieval than Hellenistic, I would look at the trigon of the Sun, since it is a diurnal nativity
So we have to look first to Venus, after to the Moon and finally to Mars which is always acting.
None of this planets are angular : Venus is peregrine in the 9th conjunct Mars which had bound and face in the degree he is in. Mars gives to Venus some celestial support, but this does not compensate the fact that both are cadent.
Moon is angular by whole sign, but her strength is diminished because by quadrant houses she cadent and besides that she is in Capricorn, her detriment, in conjunction to a benefic, Jupiter, also in poor zodiacal state.
We can?t expect too much from the trigon lords by themselves, except by the point that the ruler of the bunch of planets in Gemini is Mercury and Mercury is in Aries and angular.
The POF is conjunct Saturn, also in the 9th and Saturn is the ASC?s almuten.
I think that we have a point here.
Saturn has tripicity in Gemini and is the lord of the Moon and Jupiter. So Saturn will use Moon and Jupiter to achieve his goals. Saturn is protected by the POF which gives wealth and health. Yes, we have a point here.
By whole signs Moon and Jupiter do not have celestial dignity but they are in the 4th house, the parent?s house.
We can say that the native, Saturn, used their parents support to achieve his goals.
We read in Wikipedia ?Dwayne Johnson, the son of Ata Johnson and professional wrestler "Soulman" Rocky Johnson, was born in Hayward, California. His maternal grandfather, "High Chief" Peter Maivia, was also a professional wrestler. His maternal grandmother, Lia Maivia, ran Polynesian Pacific Pro Wrestling from 1982 until 1988 following her husband's death, becoming one of wrestling's few female professional promoters.?
Probably if his family was not into wrestling he would not be known as he is, as Konrad observed.

The lot of Eminence as pointed out here before is at 25 of Virgo, having Mars and Venus in its 10th house, so we can say that eminence comes from an activity based on fight and charm, since Venus is the ruler of the ASC.
Saturn and POF are also in teh 10th from the Lot of Emionence.

The Lot of Base (the distance between Moon and Sun and this distance projected from the ASC) falls is Pisces. Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, a planet in the 4th house by whole signs. The lot of Base gives the ?foundation ?of ones chart.

Here you have some points to consider that can direct towards eminence.

But the cadency of most of the planets and the poor celestial state of them do not bode well if we expect durability in his career.

Just some thoughts to contribute to the discussion!

Clelia

"The lot of Eminence as pointed out here before is at 25 of Virgo, having Mars and Venus in its 10th house, so we can say that eminence comes from an activity based on fight and charm, since Venus is the ruler of the ASC."

The Lot of Base (the distance between Moon and Sun and this distance projected from the ASC) falls is Pisces. Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, a planet in the 4th house by whole signs. The lot of Base gives the ?foundation ?of ones chart.

Konrad wrote: One thing however, isn't the calculation you gave for the Lot of Basis the calculation for the lot of Spirit?

More weight is given to cadent places if they are angular relative to Fortune, especially with Fortune or 10th from Fortune. 11th from Fortune also a strong place to be. The Rock has both Venus and Mars with Fortune, and Moon is angular by whole sign houses

I wasn't aware that the 10th sign from the lot of Exaltation held any particular significance. The Exaltation is the Exaltation - it does what it says on the tin! Looking at the 10th from Exaltation appears somewhat contradictory to me. But maybe you have seen it work?

The Exaltation is actually very accurate in this case - It's ruled by Mercury/Aries/7th - this signifies tactical fighting from which he makes a living (11th from Fortune).

The Lot of Base (the distance between Moon and Sun and this distance projected from the ASC) falls is Pisces. Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, a planet in the 4th house by whole signs. The lot of Base gives the ?foundation ?of ones chart.

As Konrad has pointed out, this isn't Basis

Konrad wrote:Hi Clelia,

yes there are so many books, that is, in part, my problem - I read everything I can but don't really go too deeply into any one school. I will give Bonatti a try I think. I was also drawn to the other Ben Dykes' translation you mentioned.

Thanks for you help!

Konrad wrote: The problem is I don't see what is so special about this chart. No bright fixed stars, lots of cadency. Using Lilly's rules for wealth, I'm not seeing how this guy is so wealthy even with the MR of Mars with Mercury. As I said, I'm not too spectacular in delineating Natal charts, does anyone see The Rock's wealth, fame and success in the Regiomontanus chart? I ask as I would like to give it a fair crack at my time before I move on from it.

jventura wrote:Maybe it is here that the "free will" plays something, no?