The above is the 34th Septar of the USA = Solar for 1809/10.
It is based on this chart : July 4th, 1776, 21:46 GMT, Philadelphia.
AC 7 degrees SAG.
Well, I know, that at least a dozen other charts have been suggested.
This one was carefully studied by B.Lynes. It is proved by lots of septars - among them the one given above.
It gives an insight into the USA for 2007-2014.
The chart had just taken effect when the crisis started - and we remember that in its first stage it was a crisis of estates and housing. This is clearly shown in the chart - see house IV and its ruler.
One may take one house for seven months, starting from the AC. Both directions - clockwise and anti-clockwise will work. However, according to my experience the clockwise rhythm yields the better results. This means that PL in house four will be met in autumn 2012. I can imagine that this will mean another serious crisis, possibly the peak itself.


There's a certain resemblance to the 13th septar, 1860-1867, the time of the Civil War:




Regards
LL

The above is the 34th Septar of the USA = Solar for 1809/10.
It is based on this chart : July 4th, 1776, 21:46 GMT, Philadelphia.

Thanks Lunlumo,

Its an old (and perhaps tiresome point) but I see the birth of the modern USA as 1789. It was then that the Federal government (House of Representatives and Senate) , Supreme court and the office of Presidency began.

If I was using a national chart I prefer the Federal USA chart which is I believe the only national chart for the USA which can be precisely timed to the second. However, there is no room to play with rectification there which perhaps explains why it is less popular. Others might prefer the Ingress for 1789.

However, variations of the 1776 chart are infinitely popular! As you have a root chart with Sagittarius rising (Sibley) I assume you dont really mean 21.46pm for the radix chart?

Mark

Hi Mark, I know -the US chart, this is a never ending story. There must have been endless discussions.
The chart I used is the one with a 7 degree SAG chart - 21:47 GMT. I could, however, imagine that the AC is at 14 degrees SAG - as D.Rudhyar suggested.
But all the septars I've so far made on the basis of that chart are so convincing - including the ones given above.
Regards,
LL

The chart I used is the one with a 7 degree SAG chart - 21:47 GMT

Sorry me being silly. I am just so used to seeing that chart time converted back to local time!

Mark

Hi
Interesting looking technique these Septars. First question to Mr. LL. Mr. Mark the Moderator suggests using a 1789 chart for the U.S. Using that chart, would the Septar covering the War Between the States be the 11th Septar dated 4 March 1799 NYC with a time of around 10:34:58 AM Asc around 13Ge20...? As I calculate it, the 11th Septar rules from 1859 to 1866 Please let me know if this is correct. Also, is there a little sharware program available to calculate dates for various Septars? Such as example above. I want to know what Septar covers the years 1860 to 1865 against any of the various U.S. Charts. Many Thanks for your time, Michael

Hi Michael,
you're fully right: Septar XI, based on the solar chart of 1799, covering the time from March 1859 to March 1866.
Mark the square of MA/JU to MC/IC, also mark Ma antisc. MC/IC - not to mention PL conj. Mer, ruler of AC - and probably the mundane ruler of the USA in general.
Why a special programme? All you need are solar charts.
You might find this one helpful:
Hermes shareware:

http://www.hermes-astrologie.com/1hermes.htm

LL

Hi LL
Thank you, just wanted to be sure I did not skip over a year. Why special programme..... just to save a little time from pen n paper, Thank you for the link, will check it out.

I think this Septar chart paints a nice picture for the seven years, 1859-1866. Should this topic stay here or move over to the First Congress March 4th 1789 Topic since my example is using that chart. I also will try my hand at the chart you posted at top of this topic based on the U.S. Sag rising chart.

Speaking of which, the Septar you presented 13th septar, 1860-1867, the time of the Civil War looks similar to charts for current events in N.Africa Mid East. That is, old Saturn standing all alone, all the other old 7 planets starting to gather for a big conference ganging up on him. I have more coming but do not want to have many days go by without a response for your time. Thanks again, Michael

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Hello LL
Ok I figured how to get chart up, data 4 March 1799 NYC with a time of around 10:34:58 AM Asc around 13Ge20... This is the 11 Septar for the 1789 chart. This chart was in effect March 1859 to March 1866.

Data for natal is U.S. Fed 4 March 1789 00.00 NYC 74w00 40n43 Asc 26Sc56 thereabouts.

Your mention of Ma Ju to Mc/Ic yes it looks like planet of war and territorial attacks, Aries on 6th., is in conversation with the opposition, Jupiter, ruler of 7th. May have influenced Jupiter to attack first on Apr 12, 1861? After all poor Jupiter is hemmed in between Node, Mars and Saturn.

This looks like a decent chart to describe the times leading up to war and thereafter. It give a nice alternative to chasing the wild transit aspect that would only be concerned about war.

There are a couple of outstanding receptions in this chart requires a little time but here they are. Jup Venus, Saturn and Moon.

Gemini rising, might we say its ruler hints to trade and commerce that became one of several causes to conflict? Merc soon has a visit from Moon ruler of 2H of revenue taxes gain. But in acquiring such with malefic Saturn in 2H was it all done by ethical means -2H indicator- Some would say not by the unfair tariffs. Saturn in 2H must also show nations resources suffering in coming war. Despite reception he is Detriment and retro. Mercury rushing to hide in concealment of Sun what does that mean?

Is Moon harmful in last stages of her phase, owning 2H with malefic Saturn in her house in guise of pretension of a mission - to free slaves - or was that used to guise another mission, Mo Money. Further on Mercury has conference with Pluto that you mentioned having profound effect on this 7 year period. His rulership of house 1 and 4 shows where. I use whole sign houses noting that for this chart the Meridian is in the Third and Ninth whole sign houses.

How does Jup Ven mutual reception play into this? Did she begin to feel invincible making such demands on South -high tariffs- in her Exaltation Pisces dashing away from Sun who does not catch up to her until around Oct 1799. Setting after the Sun, did that make her more harmful than good as setting position is often claimed a debility. Being ruler of 12th house she represents loss, expenditure in this period.

Did Venus find greed - high tariffs on South - in her path -reception- back to her home - Taurus also likes money - with the influence of the Node, did that make her greedy?

With 12th highlighted we cannot forget the deep religious differences between north and south. This chart shows many interesting topics.

As to outbreak of war, after the fact knowing who attacked first we might expect to see Signs ruled by Jupiter prominent at or around the time of attack. He is opposition ruler ruling 7th in chart. That should mean when Pisces or Sag take over 7 month rulership is an active time. Also any planets in Pisces, the 10th whole sign house also may be indicator.

I will get to that but a question to you Mr. LL. Breaking down the 7 month periods by 17.5 degrees that also take us around the wheel in all 12 signs during that 7 month period, is that part of Septar teachings?

This would create a Major Ruler, Sub Ruler and Sub Sub Ruler using the signs. Is this something you do?

To the war. First 7 month ruler of course Gemini the Asc for the 7 year chart. Then around Oct 1859 Taurus took over. Then in May 1860 she handed over to Aries. During Dec 1860 Aries handed over to Pisces until July 1861. So outbreak of war took place under Pisces rulership, or Ge/Pi.

From Pisces with Sun who in 7 year chart is in 10H now in another active place in 7 month charts 1H Pisces he owns 6H Leo, war. I mentioned above how Jup ruled signs when taking over or planets in his signs may be active periods.

Breaking down periods to a three rulership system is another reason I asked about a simple program to save as much time as possible. Of course the 210 movement to determine new 7 month rulers is simple but going down to 17.5 degree movement takes more time. Would be nice to do all that with the click of a mouse. Smile smile

Either way lets go to Dec 1860 when Pisces took over next 7 month period to July 1861. That fits bill for what i wrote above, time of potential skirmish when opposition ruler Jupiter's sign Pisces took over. Sun in Pisces 10th whole sign house in Major Septar chart, a time for one or the other side to act.

Pisces Asc makes Suns sign Leo the 6H of territorial attacks.

I found Leo by dividing the period 7 months by 17.5 degree movement from time Pisces took over. The direction used, clockwise motion. Leo took over sub sub rulership Apr 6 1861 Sumter attack Apr 12 1861. So the rulership at outbreak of war Ge/Pi/Le

Ge March 1859 to 1856 Major ruler
Pi Dec 1860 - July 1861 Sub ruler
Le Apr 6 1861 - Apr 24 1861 Sub Sub ruler.

So far in this example anyway, it appears Septars may provide a system of long, mid term and short term rulers. That would be welcome relief vs the usual chasing wild aspects that only lead to a near exact date but not describing the times surrounding that date.

The chart below is when Pisces took over the coming 7 months starting Dec 5 1860 to July 1861. This is not a septar chart but beginning chart for Pisces rulership. Reading this chart from Pisces, not from Asc sign Cancer, puts planets often indicating war at opposition in ruling periods sign, Pisces. They are Mars 9 Pisces, Saturn 9 Virgo.

Hope this was not confusing towards the end. Michael



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Hello Michael,
As I'm rather busy these days so I'm afraid my answer will be a short one - this is also because the evidence you are giving is really impressive. - I am not very familiar with the history of the Civil War, so I won't be able to go into details here.
There is a lot more to say about septars and about the rhythms based on the number 7 - I may give some hints concerning that.
For example, when dealing with a chart that takes you far back into the past (centuries...), you may take 49 years from house cusp to house cusp (49=7 times 7). Then you'll find Neptune triggered in the years 1861/62 - Neptune ruling IC. You can also do this anti-clockwise - then you come to 17 degrees Capricorn - a degree that is of of MA/SAT qualities (according to the Munich School of Astrology/W.D?bereiner). (It's difficult to explain the difference between the clockwise and anticlockwise rhythms - maybe later, this has been discussed here for years...)

By the way, the converse septars are helpful when looking for additional evidence. That means that you take the chart the 11th "minus-solar" . i.e. the solar March 1779 (AC 1 degree Leo). Among others you find MA/SA in Scorpio, SAT conj. the AC of the 1789 radix-chart. SUN square UR/node. And MA is antisc. PL.

I could not quite follow you where you mentioned the "17.5" degrees. (I hope I'm not being stupid now.) Be so kind as to give a hint there.

LL

Hello LL
Just about to go to bed, read mail and found you replied. Will take a good look at what you suggested in your post to me. But sand man is calling now.
Ok not much time but the 17.5 degree movement.... You mentioned earlier in perhaps another septar topic that the 7 years is 84 months and that can be broken down into 7 month periods for all 12 sign houses.

I then looked to see if the 7 months or 210 degrees could be broken down further. That is, without getting small fractions of degrees but something nice and workable like the 17.5 degree movement.

I then divided the 7 month period, 210 degrees by 12 -signs- gave 17.5 degree movement for each of the 12 sign houses in the 7 month period.

So that is how I came upon on the 17.5 degree movement. So then I asked if this is part of Septar teachings

Thanks for your time and compliment for my post, see you soon
Michael

and 4 July ... primary to me -- the Mayan (chthonic) zodiac began with Aldebaran where the Vernal Point was circa 3114 BC,

June 1776 started the American Katun cycle ...

The flag is a better testament to the birth of the American spirit ... from wikipedia "George Washington was in Philadelphia in Spring 1776, where he served on a committee with John Ross' uncle George Read, and Congress approved $50,000 for the acquisition of tents and "sundry articles" for the Continental Army.[7] On 29 May 1777, Betsy Ross was paid a large sum of money from the Pennsylvania State Navy Board for making flags."

Of course, our 18AQ10 moon contingent on that timing, which moon has been confirmed multiple times ... most recently it explains Obama's uncanny campaigning success ... with his carefully calibrated 18AQ ascendant, he 'captured the mood (moon) of the country' as did Ronald Reagen with his Aquarian sun.

Hi Michael,

we had a discussion here about Septars. They were partly mistaken for being essentially a part of Abu Masar's system. However, there are certainly parallels.
See here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5506

I'll have a closer look at the rhythm that you have chosen. It is not exactly the "normal" procedure - but everything is open to discussion.

One might e.g. also take this one - Septar 21, March 1929 - 1936, the time of the depression which began in late October 1929.

Septar XXI, Chart of constitution, March 189



Venus is definitely placed at a critical degree, opposed by Mars. Sun, Mercury, Pluto conj., Saturn and Neptune in house two. House two being ruled by both Mars and Pluto. And: Sun, Mercury, Pluto are antisc. AC/DC.

The rhythms, from early Oct. on, clockwise: Virgo/ Mercury
anticlockwise: Scorp., rulers Mars/Pluto. The interesting thing is that both Mercury and Pluto are triggered within the seven months following October '29.

Now, according to the "normal" procedure, the conj. of SU/MER/PL is put into effect in January 1930 (clockwise rhythm- go from cusp 6 to 5) - with MER being the ruler of house 12. At about the same time Mars (some weeks later) is triggered following the anti-clockwise direction (from AC to cusp 2), and around Febr./March 1930 Pluto (cusp 4 to cusp 5).

It is interesting to note that the suggested Chaldean order also works - with Mercury following Venus, lord of AC.

However, I personally feel that the moment a new house has been reached its lord and further planetes involved (in this case Sun/Merc./Pl) get into action.

LL