Eurovision Song Contest

A few weeks ago a terrorist attempt to blow up the Eurovision Song Contest was intervened by the German police. The chart for when the first semi-final kicks off this evening in D?sseldorf at 21.00 CSET has 19 Scorpio rising and the Sun is 19 Taurus and the Moon is the focal point of a tight applying T-square at 19 Leo. This is a pretty powerful configuration in the fixed signs with Charubel on the ascendant. Hopefully, and surely, everything will go well for the arrangers - yet the chart does makes you think how good it is that security is in order. Maybe, all the same there we may witness some sort of technical blip.
In Oslo in 2010 we had "Jimmy Jump" who lept up onto the stage during the Spanish entry. I don't quite know what to expect in D?sseldorf. They will certainly be prepared. There is also the transit of Mars. On the Eurovision web-site that have got the time zone wrong and have announced globally that the contest starts at 21.00 CET - but I expect most people involved will be ready at the right time.

Andrew wrote:

The chart for when the first semi-final kicks off this evening in D?sseldorf at 21.00 CSET has 19 Scorpio rising and the Sun is 19 Taurus and the Moon is the focal point of a tight applying T-square at 19 Leo. This is a pretty powerful configuration in the fixed signs with Charubel on the ascendant.

That certainly looks a powerful configuration. You got me wondering though about the ancient idea that 19 Scorpio was the 'accursed degree'. Noone seems to know where this idea originated. It may have been the location of malefic stars. For example, some traditionally malefic fixed stars in the constellation of Scorpio have moved through precession into the early degrees of tropical Sagittarius. An alternative explanation has been proposed by Kim Farnell. Kim has suggested this tradition and the whole notion of the via combusta might have originated due to the lore of an area of the sky noted for comets , nova or other celestial phenomena which would have been taken as malefic omens.

If the tradition is really old the accused degree might be 18 rather than 19 Scorpio as the Greeks didn't use a zero in numbering the astrological degrees. What we call zero degrees they simply called the 1st degree of a sign. Equally, what they called the 19th degree we now refer to as 18 Scorpio.

Its interesting that using Charubels degree symbolism it is actually 18 Scorpio (modern usage) rather than 19 that is really malefic.

Hence for 18-19 Scorpio Charubel gives the image:

A serpent with many heads, all in a circle, with fangs protruding.

He goes on:

Denotes one who may become a pest and a terror to society; unless overruled by benefices, will prove a curse to his relations and acquaintances. This is the cursed degree of the so-called cursed sign; yet, even this may have its purpose.

His symbolism for 19-20 Scorpio is:

Two men fencing with swords.

He goes on:

A duelist; a pugilist, a gymnast; one who would not admit an equal; a very formidable kind of opponent.

Using the Greek monomoiria (which assigns a planetary ruler to each degree) this degree is ruled by Saturn.

At present the tropical degree of 19 Scorpio has the benefic fixed star of Zuben Elschemali (North Scale) on it. According to Ptolemy this star is of the nature of Jupiter and Mercury.

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/st ... _order.htm

Vivian Robson states:

The Northern Scales has a Jupiter-Mercury nature and therefore positive properties. Tied up with the MC and Ascendant or with well placed stellar bodies, the Northern Scales are credited with helping the native to gain honors and distinction.

I suppose someone has to to gain honours and distinction from the semi-final!

Following Andrew's amazing run of success predicting Eurovision winners in the past there is another thread devoted exclusively to this topic on the Sport and Speculation part of the forum.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5494

Mark

Mark wrote:That certainly looks a powerful configuration. You got me wondering though about the ancient idea that 19 Scorpio was the 'accursed degree'. Noone seems to know where this idea originated. It may have been the location of malefic stars. For example, some traditionally malefic fixed stars in the constellation of Scorpio have moved through precession into the early degrees of tropical Sagittarius. An alternative explanation has been proposed by Kim Farnell. Kim has suggested this tradition and the whole notion of the via combusta might have originated due to the lore of an area of the sky noted for comets , nova or other celestial phenomena which would have been taken as malefic omens.

My opinion is that the Via Combust is hooked on to the opposition of the exaltation degree of the Sun, which is 18?56' Aries, being an expression of the square root of the 360? circle. Charubel is thus the inconjunct aspect, or 150? angle, to the exaltation degree of the Sun. This makes the degree 19 Scorpio perform like a spanner in the works.

Regarding technical blips it appears that several nations lost their commentators during the show and Spainish viewers lost the sound all together during some of the performances. But let's face it - it is such a BIG global arrangement and very little has to go wrong before trouble surfaces. There are so many wires and so much to manage. If nets get into a tangle then the 'fire' soon spreads. Maybe that is what the powerful T-square with luminaries in fixed signs indicates; BIG, and on the verge of what can be handled.

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed last nights show from a cultural perspective. Such a wide range of music and being introduced to so many different nations. It is a Circus, but it is also a treat. As a television viewer I was quite content and the stage and stage effects were terrific!

Source: VG

Andrew wrote:

My opinion is that the Via Combust is hooked on to the opposition of the exaltation degree of the Sun, which is 18?56' Aries, being an expression of the square root of the 360? circle. Charubel is thus the inconjunct aspect, or 150? angle, to the exaltation degree of the Sun. This makes the degree 19 Scorpio perform like a spanner in the works.

I agree with the first bit of this. The via combusta does seem to originate with the opposing degrees to the exaltation degrees of the Sun and Moon. The earlier astrological texts describe the via combusta running from 19th degree of Libra (18-19 Libra in modern useage) to 3rd degree of Taurus (2-3 Taurus in modern usage). This clearly relates to the opposing degrees of the Sun and Moon's exaltation degrees. This got simplified later in the tradition so that by the time of William Lilly you find the via combusta simply described as 15 Libra to 15 Scorpio.

However, you still need to explain why this part of the zodiac became known as the 'fiery path'. This is where Kim's theory comes into play. She acknowledges the links to exaltation degrees but seeks to go back further.If you get a chance to hear Kim give this talk at a Conference I recommend popping along as her work on this is quite impressive.

Regarding Serpentis or the 'accused degree' your idea is interesting. Its undeniable the ancient Greeks and Persian astrologers gave a lot of emphasis to 'aversion' where signs or planetary rulers were 5 signs apart so they could not 'see' each other. The question is why just 19 Scorpio as an accursed degree? 19 Virgo is also 5 signs apart and in aversion to the sign of Aries. Do you think this is also linked to the unfavourable reputation the sign of Scorpio has always had in traditional texts? Or it related to the differing diurnal/zodiacal relationship these signs have with Aries casting back to Scorpio in a more powerful dexter sense?

Also what about applying the same logic to degrees in aversion to the exaltation of the Moon at the 3rd degree of Taurus? Why isn't the 3rd degree of Sagittarius and Libra also 'accursed'?

Indeed, applying your logic the zodiac is littered with zodiacal degrees in aversion or inconjunct their exaltation degrees. One would therefore expect there to be numerous 'accursed' degrees mentioned in traditional texts if this was the explanation.

Andrew wrote:

Charubel is thus the inconjunct aspect, or 150? angle, to the exaltation degree of the Sun.

You have totally lost me there. Where do you get this from? Did the 19th century psychic Charubel revive this ancient hellenistic idea? Why call it Charubel?

Mark wrote:I agree with the first bit of this. The via combusta does seem to originate with the opposing degrees to the exaltation degrees of the Sun and Moon. The earlier astrological texts describe the via combusta running from 19th degree of Libra (18-19 Libra in modern useage) to 3rd degree of Taurus (2-3 Taurus in modern usage). This clearly relates to the opposing degrees of the Sun and Moon's exaltation degrees. This got simplified later in the tradition so that by the time of William Lilly you find the via combusta simply described as 15 Libra to 15 Scorpio.

However, you still need to explain why this part of the zodiac became known as the 'fiery path'.

Well, a planet within 15? of the Sun is condsidered to be under the fiery Sun's beams. This relationship also the basis for the exaltation degree of the Moon, because it indicates the distance where she departs from under the Sun's beams and thus goes into a situation of rejoice or 'vazarite'. The inferior planets are obviously more subject to come under the Sun's beams than the superior, since the pass through the Sun's beams twice by both their inferior and superior (on the opposite side of the Sun) conjunction. A planet within 2? of the Sun is not only combust, but in a state of total destruction. The latter also applies to a planet opposite the Sun, according to Lilly. The term 'Fiery Way' stems from a superior parallel/ opposite to the inferior condition of being under the Sun's beams. That would be my take on the matter, but I am sure Kim has done more research.

Mark, I do appreciate how threads like at the mundane section also can lead to such interesting technical discussions. Thank you!

PS: Charubel - I found this in Goldstein-Jacobsen (Simplified Horary Astrology) and simply refered to the degree in that sense.

Chaire! ^__^

The discourse about Serpentis'degree is very interesting and in my opinion linked to death and terrorism.

However, in my opinion, focus of chart is the stellium/conj in V (House of Shows and Arts) whose Mars (violence and bomb) attacks Venus in terms and ruler of this. Mars is the ruler of ASC, too.

The presence of some fortune in a Grand Trine should foil the attack, maybe.

CHART for 10th May on 21.


AD

Andrew wrote:

Mark, I do appreciate how threads like at the mundane section also can lead to such interesting technical discussions. Thank you!

Thanks Andrew I was worried I was de-railing your thread a bit. Glad you dont mind my going off on a tangent on the accursed degree, via combusta and exaltation degrees. I could have raised this on the traditional forum and may still do so but on the traditional forum creative ideas without any solid traditional references can be too easily dismissed. Sometimes we need the space to speculate and think aloud.

Andrew wrote:

Well, a planet within 15? of the Sun is condsidered to be under the fiery Sun's beams. This relationship also the basis for the exaltation degree of the Moon, because it indicates the distance where she departs from under the Sun's beams and thus goes into a situation of rejoice or 'vazarite'.

'Vazarite

'...my word for the day.

You raise a very interesting theory there regarding the exaltation degree of the Moon. The theory that the Moon's exaltation degree is based on its first visual emergence from the Sun's beams has been proposed by others I will cite below.

Your explanation for the Sun's exaltation degree could be right. In particular as you suggest ''The Sun received exaltation in 19 degrees Aries because the entire zodiac consists of a 360-degree circle and the square root of 360 is 19. The exact exaltation is at 18AR56.'' This sounds a very Greek/Pythagorean explanation to me.

For those who haven't checked out Andrew's website here are two of his articles on the exaltation degrees and via combusta respectively:

http://www.astronor.com/exaltations.htm

http://www.astronor.com/giftbox.htm

I find your idea that that exaltation degrees have a generalized influence beyond the planets exalted in them very intriguing. I have heard of people using the opposing degrees as degrees of fall but not using these degrees for all planets. That is something I will need to investigate myself further. Thanks

A major counter theory to yours is that the exaltation degrees have a much older Babylonian origin. This has been supported by quite a few astrologers. Most famously by the Irish astrologer Cyril Fagan. However, academics such as Weinstock also seem open to a Babylonian explanation for the origin of the exaltation degrees of the Sun and Moon at least.

In this theory the Sun at 19 Aries - in the Babylonian calendar, was the date when the vernal equinox was fixed on the 19th day of the month Nisannu in the lunisolar calendar. The Moon exalted at 3 Taurus is 14 degrees away from 19 Aries, marking the moons first visibility. This was the official beginning of the Babylonian New Year for taking the omens for the year, the Moon's first visibility at the start of the new year. [ see Weinstock, "A New Greek Calendar and Festivals of the Sun," JRS 38 (1948)]

http://www.livius.org/caa-can/calendar/ ... onian.html

Those interested in the Babylonian explanation for the exaltation degrees will be interested in this article:
http://www.edkohout.com/mundane/earthday-02.html
Earth Day, Easter and the Exaltations of the Luminaries
By Edward Kohout

In the article references are made to the siderealists Cyril Fagan's and Rupert Gleadow's work on this.

Andrew wrote:

The inferior planets are obviously more subject to come under the Sun's beams than the superior, since the pass through the Sun's beams twice by both their inferior and superior (on the opposite side of the Sun) conjunction. A planet within 2? of the Sun is not only combust, but in a state of total destruction. The latter also applies to a planet opposite the Sun, according to Lilly. The term 'Fiery Way' stems from a superior parallel/ opposite to the inferior condition of being under the Sun's beams. That would be my take on the matter, but I am sure Kim has done more research.

Your theory on the via combusta is as as plausible as anything else I have read. I just think Kim's theory is interesting although I may be biased as I have a particular interest in phenomena like comets, nova etc.

PS: Charubel - I found this in Goldstein-Jacobsen (Simplified Horary Astrology) and simply refered to the degree in that sense.

Ah hah! I was scratching my head trying to figure out what you meant by that. Why Goldstein-Jacobsen called the 150 degree relationship 'Charubel' still seems mysterious and obscure to me but I will check her book out.

Mark

Anghelos Theon wrote:

The discourse about Serpentis'degree is very interesting and in my opinion linked to death and terrorism.

I cant say I have noticed it as especially prominent myself in charts I have looked at. However, if you have examples why dont you open a new thread on this?

Mark

Mark wrote:I cant say I have noticed it as especially prominent myself in charts I have looked at. However, if you have examples why dont you open a new thread on this?

It would seem Jimmy Jump is taking us all over the place....
Thanks for the chart Anghelos!
Great entries by all!

Mark wrote: I cant say I have noticed it as especially prominent myself in charts I have looked at. However, if you have examples why dont you open a new thread on this?

Oh, i found many cases for this aspect of Serpentis' stars and especially for Unukalhai - The Neck of Snake (24a Serpentis 22?-24? Scorpio).

Now, i remember this, for example:
Car Bombs Baghdad: 3 Oct 2004 8:45 am;
Racial Bomb in Usa: 15 Sept 1963 10:19 am, Birmingham;
Antrax Envelope: 15 Oct 2001 10:15 am, Washnginton DC;
Terroristic Attack Switzerland: 27 Sept 2001 10:30 am, Zug;
Persian Gulf Strike: 17 Jan 1991 2:13 am, Kuwait.

AD

The Neck of Snake

Well, the arrangers continue to quote the wrong starting time.. 21.00 CET
- It's supposed to be CSET!!

Somebody's neck should be at stake...

Mark,
Seeing that Azerbaijan won this contest with the song Running Scared, Goca commented that the surprize or unpredictable aspect of this entry coming through as winner may be due to the Moon being in the Via Combust. We do have a discussion on this topic at the Sport and Speculation section at Skyscript (Link) as you pointed out. But then we are also discussing the Via Combust and new ideas pop up. I quoted Goca with reference to the other traditional name and description of the Via Combust we are familiar with, being the Fiery Way, and suggested that in view of that Running Scared won maybe the Fiery Way equally could be termed the Scarey Way. Goca seems cottoned on to what I meant. Both terms give credit to an unpredictable ride.

Now, getting back to our discussion here about the Via Combust originally or at some stage closely being associated to the opposition of the exaltation degrees of the Sun and the Moon, or more directly with the degree of their fall as it were; this path is found in the sign of Libra (Judgement) and Scorpio (Death and transformation). In Norwegian the time of transition after death when passing from this life to the next, the time of dwelling between worlds were judgement is cast, this is called the Skjaersild. This is the time in purgatory. But back to the Norwegian phrase skjaersild, it is composed of the word skjaer, which means cutting edge, and ild - which means fire.

Moving back to the concept of judgement or rather 'Divine Judgement', then this is a rather scarey concept for mortals most. Then if the Via Combust is the Purgatory then this deals with a cleansing, detergent and puryfing process. It makes sense. Venus being the angel of Mankind, falling into the sign of Virgo, where we have to labour, service and purify. Then the Via Combust measures up the fruits of these efforts and actions. In this manner the Fiery Way would be acting as a sort of filter. Filters work in different fashions but if this one was like a Centrifuge (the zodiac is a wheel) then this would embrace both the aspect of cleansing and a Fiery or Scarey ride. A Century is a time spin of 100 years, while a Sentry is a guard, by the way. And then there is Centaurus, where Chiron represents a Brigde between Worlds. Just a few things that pass the mind.

As I come to think about it, if the Via Combust behaves like Centrifuge this reminds me of one of the many attractions that may be experienced at Amusement Parks. They defy the Laws of Gravity, don't they - in a most Unpredictable and Fieryful manner...

Fireworks were in antiquity used to scare away evil spirits...