61 by Konrad I'd go with Mars ruling the profession with Jupiter assisting. Ptolemy states: "If Jupiter testifies, he produces soldiers, servants, publicans, innkeepers, ferrymen, assistants at sacrifice" The MC is also conjunct Betelgeuse which shows "Great military fortune, command, invention, ingenuity and helps in the perfection of arts and sciences. If at the same time with Sun, Moon or Jupiter, ample fortune and great honor." (Robson, p147) So yeah, I'd go wth something with a Martial feel and since the significators are in humane signs, something involving man. I'd think he'd be in a non-subordinate position since Mars is angular but he will have a certian noteriety since Mars is in his fall. Perhaps something to do with death or other people's money. Quote Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:05 am
62 by pankajdubey Re: Mr X's occupation 10th lord is in 3rd and there is exchange of signs between 2nd and third lords with Mercury in a Martian sign. This person would earn money from travel,writing and be a Mechanical engineer of sorts. His career will take off afetr his marriage as 7th lord is conj the cusp of 10th. Jupiter being retrograde he may marry a wealthy widow(or divorcee).He could even own or run a flying club as mercury is the winged messenger and the third lords Mars is an airy sign of Libra. This is the type of analysis you might see in traditional Vedic astrologers readings. PD Quote Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:33 pm
63 by Tom I think you are being uneccessarily heavy handed here as this was only another light comment and not meant maliciously. As you once wrote, in a slightly different context, if that makes me a killjoy so be it. Laughing icons don't diminish cheap shots. The fact that you explained yourself in a subsequent post doesn't change what you wrote and how it was taken in a prior post. Icons notwithstanding the intent was to diminish via ridicule the argument of a person whose exceptional knowledge and contributions to this site are too well known to have to recite. And it was done with only a half quote. Whether your intent was malicious or not, it came across that way. Quote Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:53 pm
64 by Tom Re Federer's Mars: This is just a quick observation. If Mars in poor state squanders, then Mars in 11 can squander friendships as well as it describing friends. Roger Federer enjoyed a close personal friendship with Tiger Woods. Mars in fall describes Woods lately, and I noticed a piece the other day that Federer is distancing himself from Woods and has been since Tiger's problems began in late 2009. "Squanders" may not be exactly the right word, but it's easy to stick by friends when they are on top, more difficult and a greater test of friendship if we can stick by them when they are down. I'll leave it to others to decide if Federer is riding himself of a friendship that can do him no good (healthy) or if he is just heading for the tall grass and wasn't much of a friend to begin with. Quote Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:00 pm
65 by Mark Tom wrote: Whether your intent was malicious or not, it came across that way. Well thats very unfortunate if that is the case. I certainly intended no offence to Margherita who I respect immensely as a contributor on this forum. Humour certainly is a risky business at times. Like many members here I have learned much from Margherita's contributions on Skyscript and her blog. She has also been very helpful privately. I do offer an unreserved apology To Margherita if my frivolous comment did cause any unintended offence. Mark Last edited by Mark on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:23 am
66 by Mark Margherita wrote: p.s. Is your Mr. X a writer or some mercurial activity? I hate the chapter about activities... Spot on. Vasanth and pankajdubey also mentioned this mercurial activity I think too. Although I dont think pankajdubey's reference to mechanical engineer fits here that well as far as I know. His occupation is very mercurial and he earns a living from writing and lecturing. I think both the Placidus and Whole sign houses houses helped highlight this with Mercury (ASC/MC ruler) in the 3rd house. I think Alcabitius would have thrown me off track more in this instance putting Mercury in the 2nd. Although one could then interpret it as mercurial talents/skills earning money. I can now reveal that Mr X is an astrologer! To be specific its Bernard Eccles an English astrologer who has taught astrology at Bath Spa University and written books and articles on the subject. He has mostly earned his living though from Sun sign astrology columns though. I have met Bernard myself and he comes over as a very bright, positive , quite brilliant astrologer. Vasanth's following comment made me smile: he is a salesman who is successful in selling things that are not usually considered important or of much value. Is this a commentary on the social acceptance of astrology today? Sounds rather apt. Bernard was interviewed by Garry Philipson and the interview is here on Skyscript: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/bernard.html As an astrologer and classicist (he has a degree in the classics) he is well acquainted with what the traditional statements regarding debilitated planets. His comments on his own chart are therefore very interesting: Q: Having mentioned your chart - would you be willing for it to be included as part of the interview? A: I think it's in the public domain. Many people know my chart, because it's such a pig to read! It's not for beginners. Try and make sense of it - or even find any benefics in it; it's absolutely hideous for almost everything. Almost all the traditional planets anyway, are either in detriment or fall? Q: You mentioned earlier that you have a lot of debilitated planets in your chart. How do you think about that? A Constantly, and with regret! (laughter) Q: Because on a simplistic level, that would suggest that you're going to have a really grim life. A: Well, you just have to get on with it. My chart is short of essential dignity, but accidentally good. For example, I have Mars in the 1st house. It's in detriment, which is not good at all, but it's in the first. Jupiter's in detriment, but it's very high in the 9th, virtually on the Midheaven. So in terms of accidental dignity, that's good. The Sun is - famously - unaspected in my chart. Cadent Sun, unaspected. Great - what do you do with that? And the answer is, it's like tumbleweed; you drift, you find places to be. There's no career structure, no path. You have to live with transparency, I think, because you don't have the internal resource to fall back on if it all goes pear-shaped. You must deal honestly with people. I'm very taken with the 'Wheel of Fortune' - you know, the tarot card. As you go up one side, there's somebody coming down the other. I think I've been up and down a fair few times! But as my dad used to say to me, you have to be nice to people on the way up in the world, because you meet them again on the way down. And that is to do with the whole wheel of fortune thing, I'm very aware of that and so try to live reasonably transparently, and deal honestly with people. Mark Last edited by Mark on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:32 pm
67 by Konrad I don't see why he does a Mercurial activity. I thought you went with angular planets or planets making their rising/setting appearance? Mercury doesn't even see the MC in this chart. I did read in one of the books I looked at yesterday that you should use planets who are with fortune, could that be it? Quote Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:09 pm
68 by margherita Konrad wrote: I don't see why he does a Mercurial activity. Mercury, for instance, produces writers, superintendents of business, accountants, teachers in the sciences, merchants and bankers: also, soothsayers, astrologers, and attendants on sacrifices, and, in short, all who live by the exercise of literature, and by furnishing explanation or interpretation; Quad.IV,4 I thought you went with angular planets or planets making their rising/setting appearance? Mercury doesn't even see the MC in this chart. I did read in one of the books I looked at yesterday that you should use planets who are with fortune, could that be it? According Ptolemy and other Hellenistic authors the only planets can indicate activity are Mercury, Venus and Mars, so we can exclude Jupiter and Saturn. Mercury is the MC ruler, has its heliacal phase on the 22nd November, and receives the aspect of the Moon (another condition mentioned in the chapter)- Moon applies to Saturn and then to Mercury. Anyway I agree that this chapter is not easy to face, myself I have several doubts on it. margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:08 pm
69 by Konrad margherita wrote:Quad.IV,4 I thought you went with angular planets or planets making their rising/setting appearance? Mercury doesn't even see the MC in this chart. I did read in one of the books I looked at yesterday that you should use planets who are with fortune, could that be it? According Ptolemy and other Hellenistic authors the only planets can indicate activity are Mercury, Venus and Mars, so we can exclude Jupiter and Saturn. Mercury is the MC ruler, has its heliacal phase on the 22nd November, and receives the aspect of the Moon (another condition mentioned in the chapter)- Moon applies to Saturn and then to Mercury. Anyway I agree that this chapter is not easy to face, myself I have several doubts on it. margherita Hi Margherita, ok, I thought it was the Moon's next aspect. I also thought that the planet making its phase had to be coming out of the beams, not heading into it. It doesn't make much sense to me that the planet representing your actions is one heading towards a debilitated state. Astrology is, at times, so infuriating. Quote Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:20 pm
70 by pankajdubey Mark wrote:Margherita wrote: p.s. Is your Mr. X a writer or some mercurial activity? I hate the chapter about activities... Spot on. Vasanth and pankajdubey also mentioned this mercurial activity I think too. Although I dont think pankajdubey's reference to mechanical engineer fits here that well as far as I know. His occupation is very mercurial and he earns a living from writing and lecturing. I think both the Placidus and Whole sign houses houses helped highlight this with Mercury (ASC/MC ruler) in the 3rd house. I think Alcabitius would have thrown me off track more in this instance putting Mercury in the 2nd. Although one could then interpret it as mercurial talents/skills earning money. I can now reveal that Mr X is an astrologer! To be specific its Bernard Eccles an English astrologer who has taught astrology at Bath Spa University and written books and articles on the subject. He has mostly earned his living though from Sun sign astrology columns though. I have met Bernard myself and he comes over as a very bright, positive , quite brilliant astrologer. Vasanth's following comment made me smile: he is a salesman who is successful in selling things that are not usually considered important or of much value. Is this a commentary on the social acceptance of astrology today? Sounds rather apt. Bernard was interviewed by Garry Philipson and the interview is here on Skyscript: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/bernard.html As an astrologer and classicist (he has a degree in the classics) he is well acquainted with what the traditional statements regarding debilitated planets. His comments on his own chart are therefore very interesting: Q: Having mentioned your chart - would you be willing for it to be included as part of the interview? A: I think it's in the public domain. Many people know my chart, because it's such a pig to read! It's not for beginners. Try and make sense of it - or even find any benefics in it; it's absolutely hideous for almost everything. Almost all the traditional planets anyway, are either in detriment or fall? Q: You mentioned earlier that you have a lot of debilitated planets in your chart. How do you think about that? A Constantly, and with regret! (laughter) Q: Because on a simplistic level, that would suggest that you're going to have a really grim life. A: Well, you just have to get on with it. My chart is short of essential dignity, but accidentally good. For example, I have Mars in the 1st house. It's in detriment, which is not good at all, but it's in the first. Jupiter's in detriment, but it's very high in the 9th, virtually on the Midheaven. So in terms of accidental dignity, that's good. The Sun is - famously - unaspected in my chart. Cadent Sun, unaspected. Great - what do you do with that? And the answer is, it's like tumbleweed; you drift, you find places to be. There's no career structure, no path. You have to live with transparency, I think, because you don't have the internal resource to fall back on if it all goes pear-shaped. You must deal honestly with people. I'm very taken with the 'Wheel of Fortune' - you know, the tarot card. As you go up one side, there's somebody coming down the other. I think I've been up and down a fair few times! But as my dad used to say to me, you have to be nice to people on the way up in the world, because you meet them again on the way down. And that is to do with the whole wheel of fortune thing, I'm very aware of that and so try to live reasonably transparently, and deal honestly with people. Mark I read Eccles' interview- he started as a Teacher and also did computer programming- so that could be the engineering bit not very mechanical . His wife is employed and this could be the 7th lord in 10th factor. He does Astrological magic and Tarot too and given to use many different forms for divination. Maybe, he would like to call himself more of healer than astrologer. PD Quote Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:27 am
71 by Mark I read Eccles' interview- he started as a Teacher and also did computer programming- so that could be the engineering bit not very mechanical. Computers seem more Mercury to me but its hard to say how this has played out without knowing his life story better. Bernard Eccles is giving a talk at my Association on our Autumn programme. We usually, go to the pub afterwards so I will ask Bernard if he has any such hidden talents. If so I will post it up here. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:28 pm
72 by Hermes Hi all Back to Federer again if I may. Did anyone notice the excellent planets in the 2nd house? Saturnus exalted there, Jupiter there as well, conjoined! Made lots of money didn't he? By what means? Bodily agility? Speed? Gymnastics? All depicted by Venus, ruler of Saturn and Jupiter in the 2nd sign=house. venus is the material these planets in the 2nd work with. They are the sculptors, Venus is their material to work with. In another post on this Forum I mentioned that the planet normally depicted as the ruler, is not so much the one having authority over, but has the function of the steward, it disposes/administrates for the sign (as the planets are the servants of heimarmene). So Venus is the steward of Saturn and Jupiter placed in the 2nd signhouse, thus providing the material with which the planets in the 2nd effect their workings. Mars is in superior square position to the planets in 2nd sign Libra, thus preventing these two to settle for a more relaxed and perhaops lazy attitude. Mars rouses them and will always prevail over them (superior position). It might also - in the future - prove to be a source of loss of money. Venus in the 1st is itself 'ruled' by Mercury, providing for Venus the Mercurial attributes to work with. This Venus - by the way - is in the 10th from Fortune, another very fortunate position, by all means. Hermes Quote Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:54 am