Ophiucus? How you could dare

Sorry I couldn't resist.

With the 13th division the last period is Sagittarius, and Capricorn will follow.

So the first sub-period is under which sign in this approach? Sorry if I am being obtuse.

I will need to go away and think about this further. I will probably post further questions later to clarify.

In your example starting from Sagittarius, the last period will be Scorpio, but April 2012 should start with Capricorn.

Yes this is the way Ben Dykes teaches profections. Using a whole sign approach you must move to a completely new profectional sign the following year. You start the sub-period on the profectional sign for that year and work your way round the zodiac. So in a 1st house profectional year you start the first period with Sagittarius and end with Scorpio as you state. However, in this system the sub-periods only have relevance to that particular year. There is no attempt to link to the next year. The following year is a totally fresh profection using whole signs so you naturally start the first sub-period with Capricorn and end with Sagittarius. However, Dykes downplays the profectional sub-periods and doesn't seem to use them that much.

There is no doubt Ptolemy's method was the inspiration for the renaissance approach where key points were profected throughout the year. I prefer a more whole sign approach myself but I have found the method of profections on Solar Fire very effective too. I am probably not using it the way renaissance astrologers would have but that doesn't really concern me. It seems to work well anyway. Symbolically, I like the 30 degrees=1 year approach to the chart too. Apart from the secondary progressed Moon I have never been that keen on secondary progressions. Its good to have such a useful alternative.

I would be interested in looking at Morinus too but I have had no success at installing this software. I am rather jealous of all those Morinus users out there.

By the way, thanks for the Ptolemy quote Eddy.

Mark

Hi all

Mark wrote

Yes but this chart starts on April 12th 1927. Surely we dont give an abitrary thing like our named months a sign each. Using an approximate 30 day sub period from the anniversary of the chart on April 12th I see it as follows:

1 April 12th-May 12th (sub period1-Sagittarius)
2 May 12th-June 12th (sub-period 2-Capricorn)
3 June 12th-July 12th (sub-period 3-Aquarius)
4 July 12th-August 12th (sub-period-Pisces)

So the riots break out in a 1st house profectional year but in a 4th house sub-period? That seems quite appropriate to me as Pisces rules the 4th whole sign house of the chart.

Have I got this wrong?

No, you've got it quite right
Wikipedia states the riots started on the 6th of august. So, when using the method which starts counting the months from the birthdate, the riots start under the monthly profection of Pisces.

This is interesting and appropriate for an astrological reason.
When we arrive in a Sagittarius profection, we expect the month under rule of the Lord of the Year (Jupiter) to be of special significance (says Zoller, the same goes for the method of Zodiacal Releasing from spirit or fortune).

So wherever the profected ascendant arrives, expect something to happen in the month under rule of the domicileruler of that sign. Here it is Jupiter, and pisces is the other sign. In that month the proverbial muck hits the fan.

Mark wrote:Symbolically, I like the 30 degrees=1 year approach to the chart too. Apart from the secondary progressed Moon I have never been that keen on secondary progressions.

You could also use the tertiary progressions of 1 lunar synodic month = 1 year. I don't look often at them because adding info often gives too much. Perhaps a rule in progressions could be, to use only the points involved in the formula for a progressions. For instance if cycle A = cycle B is used for (synodic) cycle Moon = (year) cycle Sun, then use only Moon and Sun. Same for secondary progressions 1d=1y, only the Angles and the Sun, although the former might be considered a bit too quick for other purposes than fine tuning events (similar to the transits of the Sun).

Eddy wrote

You could also use the tertiary progressions of 1 lunar synodic month = 1 year. I don't look often at them because adding info often gives too much.

I think you are confusing tertiary with a minor progressions here. Tertiary progressions formula is one day=one lunar month of life. Its minor progressions that symbolically use 1 lunar month = 1 year of life.

Hence secondary progressions are the slowest system of progressions, tertiary intermediate and minor progressions the fastest.

The late Robert Blaschke wrote a very interesting book on all three systems of progressions which he integrated into a system of prediction in itself.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0966897803?tag ... MDH1P7KR7Y&

I have experimented with them all. As you mentioned though where do we stop? There are so many possible predictive systems in astrology its more a question of how much time we have to analyse rather than having the tools at our disposal.

Even before your post I was thinking that Ptolemy's system of monthly profections based on 28 days and 13 sub-periods throughout the year have a connection to the Soli-lunar synodic cycle. It made me wonder if Ptolemy, ever the astronomer, was selecting an astronomical cycle to time his profections rather than a purely arithmetical division by 12 following the signs. However, I see the synodic month is closer to 30 days so perhaps he had the sidereal or tropical month in mind as this is closer to 28 days?

Mark

Yes you're right, I should have said minor progressions. Speaking about speed order, perhaps they could be called quaternary progressions.

Mark wrote:Even before your post I was thinking that Ptolemy's system of monthly profections based on 28 days and 13 sub-periods throughout the year have a connection to the Soli-lunar synodic cycle. It made me wonder if Ptolemy, ever the astronomer, was selecting an astronomical cycle to time his profections rather than a purely arithmetical division by 12 following the signs. However, I see the synodic month is closer to 30 days so perhaps he had the sidereal or tropical month in mind as this is closer to 28 days?

I think he had the tropical month of 27.321582 days in mind, since his astrology is tropical. I believe some astrologers do something similar with the secondary progressions, calculating one sidereal day as one tropical year (which is therefore 366.25 sidereal days long). Note that the astronomical terminology 'sidereal day' is the time it takes for the equinox to return in the meridian and not a star.

Just a wee point I noticed lately looking at the event chart for the riots outbreak is that based on declination that debilitated Mars in Cancer was also the only planet 'out of bounds'.

Mark

Hi, a few people might remember the chart that I suggested in this thread (Aug. 20th), Roman Londinium (see above).
That chart is based on the Aquarius-Octilogram of the year 47 (SUN at 15:00 Aqu.). (I explained the Octilogram in another thread.)

The forthcoming Olympic Games are definitely in favour of that chart (if I may say so ):
On the left the Octilogram, next to it the Day Chart (hope that's the right term) for July 27th, start of the Games:

SUN conj. IC basic chart
AC Day Chart conj. MC Octilogram (abbr.: OG)
and, more important: JU of Day Chart conj. AC OG.

Quite an amount of evidence, right?

LL

...
mini-correction: the time is 3-4 minutes earlier, so AC at 9-10 degrees GEM.
Further evidence:
Left: basic chart, right: Septar 2/1937 - 2/1944

When the "Blitz" came over London (late summer/autumn 1940), PL was conj. IC basic chart. The Londoners literally were forced to go "underground" (tube-stations). See the analogy in the Septar: SUN/MER/PL conj. IC.
A few days after the Invasion (6.6.'44) the first V1 rockets hit London - with UR in exact conj. with AC, basic chart.
Also the bombs on July 7th, 2005 can be traced in the chart (and in the corresponding Septar).
LL

I think Ptolemy was just trying to be symmetrical. We see the same principle that in the dodekatemoria of 13. In both cases, this seems excessive symmetry, in my humble opinion, as the 12th counterparts work much better.

Maybe, not many people will be willing to follow me here. But as it is a matter of no small importance let me add another hint confirming the London chart I mentioned above.
It is given here again together with the transits on the day of the execution of Cahrles I. Needless to stress that this was an event of profound meaning for England in general and London in particular.
SAT/PL conj. AC basic chart, SAT being very exact. In addition the opposing planets.

So, once again: the chart has a lot to tell.
LL

Hi Lunlumo,

I have no problem with your recent posts in terms of content. However, you have clearly moved away from discussing the London riots themselves.

Location wise therefore I think these kind of posts are more appropriate on the thread you created yourself on the technique you call The Octilogramme http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6304

Alternatively, you could create a thread on that time for the founding of Londinium or a general thread on London.

I haven't researched the Octilogramme for Roman London against key dates the way you have. Plus I dont mean to be disparaging of your interesting research but I do think we need to remember there is no certainty what year the Romans founded London. I am not stating I think you are wrong. Simply that this historical ambiguity should impose a bit of astrological caution in using this chart.

regards

Mark

Sorry Mark,
you're right.
Maybe one should indeed start a thread of its own concerning the London chart.
LL