Time to take another look at the Libra ingress too:

New government will be likely forced to vote IMF prescriptions, or better they would try to amend to move some sacrifices on richer people with some property tax.

Thats good even though its very late in the day. Lets hope Berlusconi goes sooner rather than later. The pressure on hi to resign is now immense. The question is where is the funding coming from to to fund the massive Italian debts repayments due in the new year? IMF, ECB , individual Euro governments?

There seems to be some kind of political brinkmanship going on with Angela Merkel wanting the IMF to do it and USA and other countries wanting Europe to resolve this itself.

Mark

Mark wrote:Time to take another look at the Libra ingress too

I commented this chart on my Facebook wall a month ago, so I already had the opportunity to find some reason of hope.

Ramesey: "If the significator of the King be under the Sun beams, there is much danger of his decease in that Revolution; but I should rather judge his kingly power to be then near death or an end,"


About the financial crisis I believe it is something coming from market rather than real economy. I'm sure that the new government will approve IMF prescriptions (which a left-wing government cannot approve) and the storm will be soon at back. I'm surely wrong and I don't know anything of the Stock market, but my idea is that the problem was that Berlusconi was ignoring problems for too much time, and Europa could not accept- Italians could not do anything (Mars-Moon falling in the 9th) to break a situation which was at standstill since many months.

margherita

Yesterday I wrote:Now there is a Full Moon tomorrow. This will add to market volatility, but there is also an outside chance that markets will reach levels were there may be a rebound. If there is no signficant news there will merely be a technical correction from the lows of the day, but as mentioned there is also the possibility that markets may think 14 days of uncertainity is enough and find reason to auction higher.

This should be confirmed by a continuing rally to the upside tomorrow. European markets largely opened on their lows and then traded higher. This could put an end to the downside for the mean time and markets may see strong advances throughout the rest of the year. I will not be suprized to see good gains in the days to come.

There maybe some mini-booms at the stock markets - there have been so many... They won't last long, in the long run they won't really matter.

As to Germany, mentioned above: A lot will depend on the country's willingness to support a currency which has more or less been forced upon the country - well, this is the way people see it.
Seeing the chart for Italy given above with AC at 17 degrees Scorpio - this reminds me of the fact that this is the MC in the chart for Germany.
Pluto will reach the AC in spring next year. Simultaneously Mars con. IC (17 Taurus) will be triggered on the basis of the seven years' rhythm clockwise direction). By the way, it will also take effect within the profections (provided I've understood that in the right way). At the same time the MA-PL-square will take effect, with the latter one in house seven. This will probably mean a revolt within Germany against a continuing (i.e. neverending) support of southern European countries - a support that would certainly ruin the economic, social and finally moral basis of the state.
The Euro in its present form will not survive - the breakdown of that monetary union is almost certain (probably in 2012). Meanwhile I even think that Germany will return to the Deutschmark sooner or later - the pressure on the Government will be tremendous.

LL

Lunlumo,

it is also interesting to check the transits to the new chart of Germany:
Oct 3rd 1990,
0h (CET+1h)
Berlin
AC @ 4* Leo.

The Sun in that chart is at 9* Libra, in an exact square to the AC in the 1949-chart. So, Pluto will aspect both: conjunct the (old) AC and square the (new) Sun. The square to the Sun will start soon, in February 2012. And just when that's over (in 2013) - Uranus comes around and opposes the Sun (which, besides being the AC ruler, also rules the 2nd house of the currency/finances). "Interesting" times.

On Nov 8. Emilie wrote:I note that an asteroid is wizzing past us as I write. Perhaps this is little asteroid has decided to take on the traditional role of a comet portending the end of a leader's reign.

I have to get back to this post, because it is interesting that if the end of a leader's reign was portrayed - how many of this endings have not been considered a 'positive'?

@ Gigi,
thanks for your observations. They add to what's been pointed out.
However, it should be remembered that the 1990 chart does not necessaily portray a new Germany. The greater part of the German astrologers (as well as myself) do not think that the 1990 chart should be regarded as a state chart. Five new "L?nder" joined the Federal Republic on October 3rd, 1990, thus reinforcing the importance of the "Grundgesetz" (the German constitution) that took effect at midnight May 24th, 1949.
One may also have a closer look at the 1870 chart...
LL

Lunlumo,

I am looking at the chart of the German Empire (1 Jan 1871, 00h, Berlin). Check this out:

1. the Sun of the German Empire chart (at 10*Capricorn) is conjunct the AC of the BDR 1949-chart, and

2. the Sun of the (new) United Germany chart (at 9* Libra) is conjunct the AC of the German Empire.

There are more connections, of course, but these are the most interesting, considering the upcoming Pluto transit.
So, in 2012 Pluto will:
a) conjunct the Sun of the German Empire chart,
b) square the Sun of the United Germany chart,
c) square the AC of the German Empire chart,
d) conjunct the AC of the BDR chart,
And, just after that, Uranus will:
a) oppose the AC of the German Empire and the Sun of the United Germany,
b) square the Sun of the German Empire and the AC of the BDR.

In the BDR chart, L2 is Jupiter. Jupiter is stuck in Taurus, where it is peregrine. But, even when it turns forward again, it has nothing to look forward to, since after Taurus come Gemini - the sign of its detriment. It goes from bad to worse.

So, all the charts point to a tension/crisis around AC, the Sun & L2.

Hi Gigi,
thank you. Europe's problems will be Germany's problems and vice versa. The moment Germany refuses to go on supporting southern European states will mean the sudden death of the monetary union. People seem to be sure that this will never happen. I wouldn't be that sure...
Let me add this one to the evidence you have posted:
The forthcoming solar of the 1871 chart (Jan. 1st). I needn't comment on what is obvious. AC at 2 degrees SAG: a degree of a MA/PL-quality. UR first degree AR conj. IC is the midpoint of NE/JU, NE/JU are antisc. :
A sudden change on the level of communication will produce a change of public opinion. House three: also the currency. Inflation threatening.
The terrible 1923 inflation has not been forgotten in Germany. When confronted with the possibility, if not probability of a serious inflation on a large scale Germany will doubtlessly return to the Deutschmark. Would this be the "worst case" - i.e. the end of the Euro? Probably yes.
In the solar given above: one house - one month, which will mean UR will be triggered off in spring. I feel that April-June 2012 will be the decisive months.
LL

We are getting into into a rather in depth discussion on a chart many members have probably not even seen before. Creation of German Empire or unification of German states : 00:00 hours, January 1st, 1871, Berlin.

Here is the chart for the German Empire or Second Reich:
Generally, I favour a later chart for a country. Hence I use the 1927 chart for the UK over the 1801 chart. However, the unification of the German states in 1871 was quite a unique moment. Before this 'Germany' was just a host of separate states ie Prussia, Bavaria, Upper Saxony etc. This does seem a very important seed moment.

However, this Germany was not a democracy and still a monarchy. I tend to agree with Lunlumo that the creation of the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG) in 1949 is the key radix for modern Germany. It established the constitutional framework of modern Germany. The reunification of 1990 did not change this. However, its probably wise to keep an open mind and not fixate on just one chart for a country.

One point about the 1949 chart. The original capital of the FRG was Bonn not Berlin. At the time the FRG was founded Berlin was not even formally part of the FRG but was instead divided into the 4 military sectors of the Allied occupying forces. I realise the German capital has now moved to Berlin. The question is should the chart for the FRG be re-located to Berlin or stay with its foundation location? I remain suspicious of simply re-locating the location of a radix chart. For example, regarding the Federal Constitution chart for the USA I still retain the chart for the original capital of the USA (New York) not Washington DC.

I therefore display both charts below:
Its interesting that Pluto is closely conjunct the ASC of the Bonn based chart right now.

Mark

Lunlumo wrote:

SAG: a degree of a MA/PL-quality. UR first degree AR conj. IC is the midpoint of NE/JU, NE/JU are antisc. :
A sudden change on the level of communication will produce a change of public opinion.

I assume you are following the planetary degree associations of the Munich School of Astrology (founded by Wolfgang D?bereiner). I cant really comment on this as I dont use this system.

From a more traditional perspective though using fixed stars the ascendant of the SR for the German Empire chart has the star Dschubba in sidereal Scorpio on the ASC. This star is listed as Isidis in Vivian Robson's book Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology. Dschubba, and the neighbouring star Acrab, (aka Graffias) are positioned next to each other in the Scorpion's head. According to Ptolemy , they correspond to a Mars like character with a blend of Saturn characteristics. Interestingly, the event chart for the Deep Horizon explosion off the US coast last year had the neighbouring star Acrab, (aka Graffias) on the ascendant. The current position of these stars in the tropical zodiac makes both 2 and 3 degrees Sagittarius quite malefic degrees and accordingly unstable.

Mark

Hi Mark,
I personally as a rule do not really like relocations - e.g. the US chart 1776 should be related to Philadelphia, the 1789 chart that you discussed here (thank you, by the way) should be referred to N.Y.
German matters, however, have always been complicated. When the Federal Republic was founded Bonn's status was the one of a "Regierungssitz - "seat of the government". In other words it was not given the title of a capital (that would have been "Hauptstadt"). With respect to Berlin's complex situation (then still under allied control etc.) one avoided calling it "Hauptstadt". But actually it was the capital - at least in a symbolical way. So I think one does not go wrong in referring the chart to Berlin.
LL