A few months back on the forum I got into a discussion with Wolfgang about his suggestion that a Capricorn ingress could be used as a chart for the whole year ahead. I am not aware of this idea in Persian, Arab or European astrology.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6310

However, I did have a recollection that I had read about this idea in Indian astrology. I couldn't remember where though. Plus it seems counter intuitive as Indian astology is of course sidereal not tropical.

I now believe the original source of this idea is the Indian ancient astronomical text called the Vedanga Jyotisa , which stipulates that the new year is calculated from the winter solstice. The text is the oldest astronomical work to have survived in India and it is believed to have been composed some time in the 1st millenium BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanga_Jyotisha

It seems very appropriate that Indian astrologers gave this focus to the Capricorn ingress as India is traditionally associated with the sign Capricorn (Ptolemy, Varahamihira)

Mark

Mark,
The problem here: unlike tropical astrology sidereal astrology (including Indian astrology) cannot calculate an ingress accrately. The reason is that it is difficult to agree on an Ayanamsa (difference between tropical and sidereal dates - at the beginning of the 21st century ca. 24 degrees). There are at least six or seven different Ayanamsa values - the "Lahiri" being the one mostly used. But the differences can amount to up to 10' (if not more). The Lahiri -Ayanamsa is more or less a compromise.
However, what the greater part of mundane astrologers in India do: they take the (sidereal) Pisces New Moon chart as a year's chart - comparable to our Vernal solar ingress.
LL

... take e.g. this year's sidereal New Moon Pisces:
Athens - Note, however, that in Indian astrology we have the identity of house and sign. That means in this case AC/first house begins at one degree Leo, second house at 1 degree VIR etc.
The New Moon in house eight with SAT opposing (note that Indian aspects differ from the ones we use), SA being a malefic (in this case both a natural and a temporary one, since it rules house six and seven ("maraka" - "death-bringing" planet). Furthermore it is in house two. JU in house eight is partly malefic. - All in all: debts and painful restrictions.
LL

Lunlumo wrote:

The problem here: unlike tropical astrology sidereal astrology (including Indian astrology) cannot calculate an ingress accrately.

I dont know enough about Indian mundane techniques to come to the defence of that tradition here. My none too subtle point above was that ancient Indian astrology seems to have been following a mixture of tropicalism (based on equinoxes and solstices) and siderealism (based on the Nakshatras). However, there is also evidence that the original order of the Nakshatras was dictated by seasonal considerations too.

http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option ... &showall=1

At that time the 12 sign zodiac was not being used in India. So although, I referred to ''Capricorn ingress'' above this is historically incongruous. It would be more accurate to discuss this as the winter solstice.

However, its not a problem of calculation skills but more one related to relying on any sidereal zodiac is it not? I have been meaning to buy some books on Indian mundane astrology out of curiousity to see how they approach such matters.

Lunlumo wrote:

The reason is that it is difficult to agree on an Ayanamsa (difference between tropical and sidereal dates - at the beginning of the 21st century ca. 24 degrees). There are at least six or seven different Ayanamsa values - the "Lahiri" being the one mostly used. But the differences can amount to up to 10' (if not more). The Lahiri -Ayanamsa is more or less a compromise.

Yes as tropicalists we have the issue of divergence from the sidereal constellations. Siderealists though have the major problem of not just competing zodiacs but also the signs themselves being more and more out of harmony with the actual seasons irrespective of what ayanamsa is used. Still siderealists can point to the difficulty tropical astrology has in the southern hemisphere.....

Lunlumo wrote:

However, what the greater part of mundane astrologers in India do: they take the (sidereal) Pisces New Moon chart as a year's chart - comparable to our Vernal solar ingress.

Ptolemy advocated something rather similar in Tetrabiblos from a tropical perspective. At that time there was not the astronomical accuracy to measure the exact ingress so the nearest new/full moon was used. However, doesn't this approach gradually run into more and more problems with a sidereal zodiac? As the zodiac in out of tandem with the equinoxes and solstices the new moons will clearly be further away from the actual seasons.

Lunlumo wrote:

Note, however, that in Indian astrology we have the identity of house and sign. That means in this case AC/first house begins at one degree Leo, second house at 1 degree VIR etc.

Yes the same system used in hellenistic astrology. Its also found in much of Persian and Arab astrology. This approach has its tropical supporters too. I personally, look at charts in both whole sign and quadrant houses.

Mark