Personally, I don't mind taking a look around for the Cheshire Cat, Mark. It could still be around somewhere. Both Morrison and Barclay were persistent regarding the importance of preceding syzygys, eclipses and then there is the Saros. The Terrorist Attack on the Twin Towers in nothing but one of the most horrifying and significant events of modern history, so I would expect nothing less than that it was indicated by an eclipse, and it would be an excellent opportunity to do research into the Saros.

If the building of the WTC was first proposed in 1943, I would like to have a look at the solar eclipse of Aug 1. this year and see whether there is anything that catches the eye:
The Solar eclipse in the 4th house of New York, joined to Jupiter and Pluto (terrorist action?) would seem to be an interesting starter. The eclipse is in a tight sextile to Uranus in Gemini. Notice the position of Uranus at 8GE02, in relation to Uranus in the US chart as mentioned by SGFoxe? Then Mars, Lord of the Scorpio 7th (the attacker), is in his detriment in Taurus in the 1st house. There is (less than) 2 degree separating the tight Jupiter/Pluto conjunction from the eclipse itself. From this point in time we are 2 years short of 60 up to the fatal day of destruction on Sep. 11 2001. I don't have an answer. I do not commonly progress the luminaries at a rate of 1 degree per day (this would bring the eclipse to a sextile with JU/PL through signs of longs ascension and below the horison). There could be another way, but there are things I want to look into before I let it go.

I do think that we could conduct an investigation into the possible astrological presignifications of the WTC attack at the Mundane section at Skyscript and that this would be an interesting example and exercise within collective research. Zollers work becomes interesting, too. As an astrologer, I get tend to get ruffled when people say I am psychic, when I am an astrologer and it may in fact come down to a matter of technique an interpretation.

Andrew wrote:

Both Morrison and Barclay were persistent regarding the importance of preceding syzygys, eclipses and then there is the Saros. The Terrorist Attack on the Twin Towers in nothing but one of the most horrifying and significant events of modern history, so I would expect nothing less than that it was indicated by an eclipse, and it would be an excellent opportunity to do research into the Saros.

I am sure that approach will be worth exploring in depth and I agree it will be worth looking a Saros cycles in that. It will also be an opportunity to explore contrasting ways of working with eclipses. In particular the visual approach calculated from moment of greatest eclipse and/or the zodiacal technique which appears more symbolic. Do 'eclipse charts' based on localities where no actual eclipse occured really work? This seems an excellent opportunity to explore this. I am going to start my investigation by looking at solar and lunar eclipses actually visible from New York.

Andrew wrote:

As an astrologer, I get tend to get ruffled when people say I am psychic, when I am an astrologer and it may in fact come down to a matter of technique an interpretation.

As I stated earlier I can understand why that can seem offensive. If you have spent decades studying and practising astrology it can seem annoying to have that skill apparently belittled as 'psychic'. For example if you give a horary or natal reading that goes especially well people can think you are 'psychic'. However, you may have just been following basic symbolism in the chart. Plus intuition is something that comes into all walks of life. People dont call an experienced Doctor that does a spot on diagnosis 'psychic'. That skill can only come about after years of study and practical experience. Having said all that I think the astrological community does have its fair share of psychic individuals. I think its something of a taboo to even suggest this in some astrological circles.

Mark

Interesting comments, Mark. I don't think you have to be a psychic to be able to interpret a painting, but more likely it comes down to an understanding of how all the pieces come together. Like the performance of an accomplished pianist (or other musician, for that sake) seems little short of a miracle - it comes down to practice and co-ordination. The musician becomes one with his instrument.

We do have a phenomena known as 'scientific-intuition'. I think it all probably means that when you your field well enough you know how to maneuver around and 'which doors to open'. To be one with your instrument, you also have to be in tune with yourself.

The exception is the true story about the 3 Finish astrologers who got lost trying to find their way to an astrology conference somewhere in the sticks. They needed to find someone they could ask for directions, but passing through a remote village the only person they could find was a drunkard stumbling along the side of the road. Finding no one else to ask, they had no alternative but to turn back and stop the drunkard and ask him if he could tell them the way to the venue. The guy had had so much to drink they couldn't get a sensible word out of him, until he hung his head in through the car window and said; "You're Aries, you're Taurus and you're Pisces." These were the correct sunsigns of the astrologers on their way to the conference and the only comprehendable words they could get out of him. So the astrologers had to drive on... no wiser but certainly more puzzled than earlier.

Andrew wrote:

The exception is the true story about the 3 Finish astrologers who got lost trying to find their way to an astrology conference somewhere in the sticks. They needed to find someone they could ask for directions, but passing through a remote village the only person they could find was a drunkard stumbling along the side of the road. Finding no one else to ask, they had no alternative but to turn back and stop the drunkard and ask him if he could tell them the way to the venue. The guy had had so much to drink they couldn't get a sensible word out of him, until he hung his head in through the car window and said; "You're Aries, you're Taurus and you're Pisces." These were the correct sunsigns of the astrologers on their way to the conference and the only comprehendable words they could get out of him. The astrologers had to drive on... little wiser but more puzzled than before.

Here is the UK we have the ancient stand up comedian jokes based on 'An Englishman, Scotsman and an Irishman'. Sounds like this could be the astrological equivalent!

There is a tale I could share about the kind of psychic phenomena in astrology I mean but this is a public forum and I think I better leave names out of this since it featues a rather prominent astrologer. As you mentioned people can be offended at this suggestion and I have probably said more than enough.

Andrew wrote:

We do have a phenomena known as 'scientific-intuition'. I think it all probably means that when you your field well enough you know how to maneuver around and 'which doors to open'. To be one with your instrument, you also have to be in tune with yourself.

You undoubtably have a good point there. If you have seen a first rate pianist or guitarist their skill can seem almost superhuman. Nevertheless, I think excellent prognostication probably relies on something more intangible than just study, hard work, and experience. I accept these are important and you need this foundation. However, I feel there is an X factor beyond this. For example, look at William Lilly. Lots of astrologers in his generation worked hard, studied and had volumes of clients. Yet Lilly had a particular quality as an astrologer that his contemporaries acknowledged made him special. As the old saying goes 'you cant put in what God left out'.

Mark

Hello

Just to make your life even more complicated Mark... ..... remember that there was an attack on the WTC in New York in 1993. Stellarium mentioned it on page 1 of this thread. Although it's been overshadowed by the attack in 2001, I suspect that astrologically it's just as useful to look at.

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/events-022693.html

Regards

handn

Hi Tom,
Do we separate the two events? One chart suggesting that the WTC will be rammified by a Boeing (specific place and event), and another for an attack on US territory (timing)? Something to do with lightening choosing the line of least resistance..? That is an idea, too, of how to put together generals and specifics. With 9/11 several things happened at once.

HI,
SInce Al is being wonderfully remembered here, and no one has mentioned the book his last student, Karen Christino, compiled, 'The Best of Al. H. Morrison'. This book is still available. STella Mira Books or Press. I spent an afternoon with him and like Andrew, I have spent years chasing down the answers that would help me puzzle out simple declarative remarks of an astrological nature he made in passing. Here's what he said that threw me-if you have direct Nodes, then the meaning is reversed. I have yet to figure out exactly what he meant,. Did he mean the Lunar Nodes significations flip when they go direct by progression or was he solely referring to the natal chart. I am not even quoting him correctly But if any one who corresponded with Al has any additional material on direct vs retrograde lunar nodes, do post a summary. 'Secrets from A Stargazer's Notebook' that swell tome by Debbi Kempton Smith on which more then a few of us were seduced into a lifetime of astrological study, was,, according to Al, originally supposed to be an authorized biography of Al H. Morrison but he refused to cooperate. I'd love to see someone collect the many letters he wrote...why Andrew, between you, Anne Lathrop, Zane Stein, L. Blake Finely and a few others, we'd have a whole bushel of correspondence to mull over!
I think Al used to post regularly in the hard copy publication 'The Mercury Hour' which was rather like an internet forum long before the internet existed for the general public. Love to see that stuff collected as well. MInor planet Morrison is worth delineating in your chart.lol Especially if you wer ealso a fan of the American rock band the Doors as well as a student of Al's.

i can't remember who said this in some old book, but i remember the mention of t mars hitting an eclipse degree as a problem...

i note the solar eclipse for june 30 1992 su/mo at 8 cancer 56.
mars on the date of the wtc attack - feb 26 1993 at 9 cancer 26..

the solar eclipse prior to 9-11 is on june 21 2001 su/mo @ 0 cancer 10
mars on the date of sept 11 2001 1 cancer 26..

fwiw and all that jazz...........

sandstone wrote:i can't remember who said this in some old book, but i remember the mention of t mars hitting an eclipse degree as a problem...

i note the solar eclipse for june 30 1992 su/mo at 8 cancer 56.
mars on the date of the wtc attack - feb 26 1993 at 9 cancer 26..

the solar eclipse prior to 9-11 is on june 21 2001 su/mo @ 0 cancer 10
mars on the date of sept 11 2001 1 cancer 26..

That sounds like "Precepts in Mundane Astrology" by Van Norstrand, for one, which by the way Morrison sent me a reproduction of - free of charge!

Scott Silver wrote:I have spent years chasing down the answers that would help me puzzle out simple declarative remarks of an astrological nature he made in passing. Here's what he said that threw me-if you have direct Nodes, then the meaning is reversed. I have yet to figure out exactly what he meant,. Did he mean the Lunar Nodes significations flip when they go direct by progression or was he solely referring to the natal chart.

This is so interesting and really got me thinking, but I am wondering whether it should be discussed under another thread, possibly another section.. We should get back to this.

Andrew wrote:

That sounds like "Precepts in Mundane Astrology" by Van Norstrand

Interesting. That is a book I haven't seen. Although Charles Carter also picked up the issue of transiting Mars activating eclipse degrees.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/eclipsecarter.html

When was this book by Van Norstrand published?

Mark

When was this book by Van Norstrand published?

It isn't as old as one should imagine. Published by Macoy Publishing Company in 1962 and dedicated to the memory of Nicholas de Vore. But I recalled the book immediately as one of the works I broused though over the years, and it seemed topical to mention it. Barbara Watters also says about the transit of Mars over the place of an eclipse on pg 96 of her 'Horary Astrology'. A.J.Pierce has a good say on the eclipses. I am sure there are authoritives prior to Van Norstand, however, his work is worthy of attention. Lastly, Morrison found it worthy of a reprint.