What a kerfuffle we have here.

Chart 1: I?ll go for Politician as the Moon 2nd Sun 3rd quadrant dynamic can be to do with a trying to get you into their world, or tribe, behaviour so this could fit someone who wouldn?t mind a few followers. Jupiter rising and Sun 9th could give some idealism and /or righteousness. Water and Earth signs are seen as more conservative. Mercury in the 10th in Sag could also suggest a public speaking gift for the gab presence with a bit of belligerent I am the way and the truth thrown in.

Chart 2: Has a Sag MC and Jupiter in domicile (9th) (was Sag linked to actors traditionally?), Leo Sun which is often seeking the spotlight and, this is where I need the Outers as it looks unaspected otherwise (an unaspected Sun is a bugger of a beast to integrate, so some say). Or other than the MC trine. If this is the actor their opinion of their talents may exceed others opinions of them. Luminaries in 2nd quadrant again so a don?t want to grow up dynamic, but this time both in the 6th so a potentially big drive to learn ones craft, perhaps more suited to an actor ?

I?m sure I?ve read somewhere Pisceans are seen as more likely to be actors than other signs. Is there a Jupiter theme here ? Their Chameleon inclinations could be another way of thinking about this.

Chart 3: businessmen by elimination. If so, could be a big talker (Aries Sun in 3rd) and comfortable in the spotlight (Moon in 10th).

Any combination wouldn't raise my eyebrows, but I?ll pluck for :
POLITICIAN
ACTOR
BUSINESSMAN

I got to know a youngish chap, mid 20?s, towards the end of 2011 who is part actor, part businessmen and also part politician to the extent that he is quite active in youth politics, and it wouldn?t surprise me if he went into politics more seriously/formally in due course. Also has a Law degree. Hmmmmmmmmmm

Thanks Tom

Hope you had a great St Patrick's day. I always find it amusing how everyone all over the world celebrates our saint's festival day. When I first move to England I was gutted that there was no St. George's day as a Bank Holiday the way St Patrick's day is in Ireland!

We?ll start be revealing the chart of the politician. This is chart No. 1. I mentioned, after a bit, that he was a 19th century man and that Americans might recognize his name and I doubted most Europeans would be able to do that. Yet historians consider him one of the more successful US Presidents. His name is James K Polk. His birth data is:

Nov 2, 1795
12:20:17 PM
Pineville, South Carolina USA
29 Capricorn 52 Rises

Yes this is a rectified chart. I felt a little guilty about that, but the chart works and this isn?t the chart of the actor we were looking for, so I got over it.

Polk served for one term, which is what he promised to do at the outset. Imagine that, a politician that keeps his promises.

From Wiki:

Polk was the last strong pre?Civil War president, and he is the earliest of whom there are surviving photographs taken during a term in office. He is noted for his foreign policy successes. He threatened war with Britain over the issue of which nation owned the Oregon Country, then backed away and split the ownership of the region with Britain. When Mexico rejected American annexation of Texas, Polk led the nation to a sweeping victory in the Mexican-American War, which gave the United States most of its present Southwest. He secured passage of the Walker tariff of 1846, which had low rates that pleased his native South, and he established a treasury system that lasted until 1913.
Polk oversaw the opening of the U.S. Naval Academy and the Smithsonian Institution, the groundbreaking for the Washington Monument, and the issuance of the first postage stamps in the United States.
He promised to serve only one term and did not run for reelection. He died of cholera three months after his term ended.
Scholars have ranked him favorably on the list of greatest presidents for his ability to set an agenda and achieve all of it. Polk has been called the "least known consequential president" of the United States.

2 is actor- all that Pisces and Neptune

I see Tom has already revealed that Chart 1 was the politician. I will still post my delineation since I had already come out with Chart 1 as the politician previously.

Chart 1

I think this is our politician. Apparently a President no less!

1 An angular Moon in the 7th in Cancer indicating a degree of public prominence and popularity

2 Jupiter angular in Aquarius in sect near the ASC degree ?Indicating a political or social focus

3 North Node on 7th house cusp/South Node on ASC degree. Indicating a life of service to others. Personal self sacrifice.

4 A heavily afflicted 5th WS house ruler (Venus) which is in detriment, combust and out of sect. I ruled out the Actor based on this. I had initially, thought this might be an indication of a fall from grace due to a sex scandal. However, this seems much less likely in the context of 19th century politics. Plus Venus doesn?t seem configured in the career indications so much. This could indicate some serious personal set back such as the death of a child.

5 Looking at the mercury placement between chart 1 &3 I much prefer Chart 1. Although mercury is in its sign of detriment it is disposited by Jupiter which is close to the ASC degree. Mercury is also in the bound of Jupiter and forming a sextile to Jupiter. By WS houses Mercury falls in the fortunate 11th house. This indicates support from others. The Mercury-Jupiter connection here makes me think of a good public speaker. Also an interest in justice (Jupiter) and a capacity for legal thinking. I just don?t see this in chart 3.

7 Using the Hellenistic natal approach the Oikodespotes or (Domicile Master) of the Sect light sets the agenda or destiny for the native under the restriction set by the bound ruler of the pre-dominator (sect light).

Here the Sun is the sect light and is fit for purpose in a non-cadent WS house. The Sun here falls in the fortunate 11th by WS house. By sign division it falls in the 10th. The domicile Master of the Sun is Mars. Mars is also the MC ruler and the lot of Kingship falls in Scorpio and sextiles the Ascendant. Mars is closely trining the Ascendant and Jupiter. Mars is also the Almuten of the ascendant degree as both exaltation and bound ruler.
Mars seems very prominent in this chart which would seem to fit a politician or businessman far better than an actor.

The Sun is in the bound of Jupiter. This indicates a Jupiter quality somewhat moderating the influence of Mars in this person?s fate.

Mars is located in the WS and quadrant 9th house indicating foreign affairs. Unfortunately, Mars is the malefic out of sect here so this would indicate a fairly bellicose foreign policy for a President. There appears to be some benefit obtained with that approach here with Mars trine the ASC degree and Jupiter.

8 Lot of Fortune in the 10th WS house. Its domicile ruler Venus is quite afficted here. Exaltation ruler is Saturn which is in the 6th WS house. However, bound ruler is Jupiter which is conjunct the ASC. The Moon and North Node falls in the 10th place from the Lot of Fortune indicating popularity and increase.

9 For significator of manners Jupiter seems the main significator for Mercury here. However, it is opposing Saturn in the 6th WS house. The Moon is in its own domicile and in the exaltation of Jupiter and bound of Saturn. We also have Saturn as the domicile Lord of the ASC and Mars as the Almuten of the ASC. So we seem to have a blend of Saturnian austerity and organizational ability , combined with a Jupertarian vision and an assertive , uncompromising martial zeal to achieve. This seems quite an intimidating package in one person. Not an easy person to know or understand I expect.

Chart 2
There are a lot of indicators here that lead me to believe this might be the actor.

1 An angular Moon in sect in the 7th WS house. It also has triplicity rulership in Virgo. Again like chart 1 indicating popularity but here it is joined by Mercury and Venus.

2 The Moon is the sect light in this chart. Here it rules the creative 5th house.

3 Jupiter is domicile ruler of ASC, MC, 10th WS house, Lot of Fortune and is placed in the 10th WS house in sect and in its own domicile!

4 Moon forms a separating square to the exceptionally strong Jupiter in Sagittarius. Again adding to popular appeal.

5 The Sun trines the MC from the vocation related 6th house.

6 Lot of Spirit in Aries is trining the Sun. Deriving the chart from the LOS its ruler Mars and the Sun fall in the 5th place.

7 Jupiter squares Saturn mitigating the negative influence of Saturn in the 1st as the out of sect malefic.

Mercury is clearly the significator of manners and the Oikodespotes or (Domicile Master) of the Sect light. The Moon-Mercury conjunction gives an excellent communicator with the capacity for light and humoorus roles. Equally, as ASC ruler Jupiter gives a warmth and optimism. Out of sect in a night chart and ruling the feminine sign of Pisces it gives a more reflective, spiritual quality. This person will seeks justice and may become involved in political or social campaigns. The Moon opposes Saturn while the presence of Saturn in the first house and the ASC in its bound indicates more serious concerns. This person also has good managerial and organizational skills. The clearly also have the ability to play more serious roles or to seek to materialize their ideas.

Chart 3

I think this is the businessman. We see that as a night chart the sect light is the Moon.

1 Mars is Significator of manners and Oikodespotes or (Domicile Master) of the Sect light. Saturn is domicile ruler of the ascendant. Jupiter is in the first but it is out of sect and lacks any dignity. I would expect this person to be tough, abrasive and not the most subtle of types. The cardinality of the ASC and Mercury and the Sun in Aries as ruler of the Lot of Spirit would seem to indicate quite a rash , impulsive personality.

2 Moon is in the 11th WS house in sect. Moon is in fall in Scorpio. Moon sextile ASC.

I think this would be problematical for a politician. A prominent Moon is important in any public figures chart. Especially in a night chart like this. However, I cannot overlook the fact the Moon is in its fall here. If we are trying to generate mass popular support I cannot see this being easily achieved with a planet in fall. The same applies to being an actor although there could be niche roles that might be ok.

3 Mars and North Node in 12th House. Considering the importance of Mars in the personality and destiny of this person this seems significant. In addition to the Moon opposing Venus Rx in the 5th this gives thought to some kind of scandal or public disgrace. North Node in the 12th indicates gain from hidden activities.

4 Mercury is combust the Sun. I don?t see this as a great indicator for a politician. Planets under the beams often have a hiddeness about them. This might fit a businessman conducting deals under the public radar.

5 Deriving chart from Lot of Fortune both the Sun and Mercury fall in the fortunate 11th place of acquisition. Both planets fall in the 4th house by WS houses. This may indicate inherited wealth or something related to land or property.

6 The Lot of Spirit is in Leo in the WS 8th house. The Sun disposits it from the 9th place. Some emphasis on foreign travel and connections here.

7 Venus in the 5th house. I have struggled with this a bit. If I have gone wrong this is where my delineation has fallen down I think.

I can see how this super strong Venus could be seen as indicating an actor. Its strong by essential dignity ( domicile, and bound ruler) its in sect , its in a positive house placement and good solar phase. I just don?t think the Moon in fall easily supports a successful actor that well. Not least because its Oikodespotes (Domicile Master) is here in the 12th WS house. An exception might be if this person played martial or Scorpionic type parts.

However, Venus is retrograde and the sect light ( exaltation ruler of Venus) closely opposes. I am going for the interpretation of some public scandal connected to a businessman. I am not sure if this is sexual or financial.

Mark

Tom wrote:

Polk served for one term, which is what he promised to do at the outset. Imagine that, a politician that keeps his promises.

I notice he died of cholera three months after leaving office! That helps explain his ASC and POF Almuten ruler Saturn in the 6th WS house. He wasn't that old. I also note that Polk was a political compromise candidate who often ended up alienating both pro-slavery and abolitionist factions. Not untypically, for a southerner Polk was a slave owner so this was inevitably an issue his abolitionist opponents distrusted him on. A very literal connection to the WS 6th house as 'the house of slaves'.

He was also possibly rendered infertile due to a urinary operation in childhood. He and his wife had no children. That helps to explain the debilitated Venus as ruler of the the IC and 5th house by WS.

Polk was a noted supporter of the the territorial expansionist notion of 'manifest destiny' and the idea that the American nation had the right to span the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans. His foreign policy was posited on this mystical somewhat racist assumption that was very common in 19th century America (such ideas were also prevalent in Victorian England too). He very effectively badgered Britain into territorial concessions over Oregon on threat of war and won a decisive victory in the war with Mexico. Most of the western USA today was territory obtained during Polk's presidency. This came about through British boundary concessions in the north-west or Mexican territory ceded to the USA following the war making up what later became the south-western states of the USA.

This all fits a politician who had Mars ruling his sect light with it falling in his 9th house by both sign division and WS house. Indeed his chart is clustered with Mars connections. Mars rules both the MC and lot of Kingship and Mars is the Almuten on his ASC.

Mark

Contrast this with the weak Moon in chart 3 in 10. What does that tell us?

Infamy - far and wide?

Off topic but a classic British comedy one liner springs to mind...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw

Mark

Infamy - far and wide?

Yes but not evil. There are degrees of infamy.

Tom wrote:

Yes but not evil. There are degrees of infamy.

An interesting topic for the philosophy forum! Does 'evil' have an astrological signature? Where lies our free will if so? Surely, all we can spot are certain predispositions that may or may not be followed through to the worst possible actions? Also there are surely wider societal influences that allow certain tendencies to be developed in some cases and not in others?

Mark