paul

simple answer : Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques

james

When you turn on the light, do you feel like Thomas Edison?

Off topic, but today's system of electricity distribution is most certainly not grounded upon Edison's ideas. It was Tesla who won the scientific "race" between the two - in the court as well as in reality.

Goran

Mark wrote: Where have you been? You have been missing all the fun!

No time for it.

Mark wrote: Yeah it would have made me question the whole approach if Saturn was Kurios here!!! I have seen the primary emphasis given to the bounds of the ASC. However, I thought a planet in the 1st WS house would be the next thing to check out? Or are planets only relevant if they fall in the bounds of the ASC degree? Its something I have been a bit unclear on.

AFAIK it's only the planet in the ASC's confines that is first on the list, then the domicile lord of the ASC, etc., but my memory, like Wikipedia, is not a primary source. And while it isn't the Lord of the Nativity, RR does have a certainly Saturnian way about him, quiet of speech and the like, so it isn't exactly doing nothing anyway.

Mark wrote: Sorry is 'an alien place' PH for peregrine?

ahem http://www.thefreedictionary.com/peregrine

Mark wrote: Maybe we should save further discussion for a new thread on the Lord of the Nativity?

What, there's only one? Like Highlander?

Paul wrote: [
You're ruling out an incredible number of people with this statement, not just Polk. If I can be frank, it seems a little unfair and even prejudicial to be making judgements on this person based on their chart like this. You can't see any evidence of putting others before himself? Do you mean astrological evidence? Or evidence from wikipedia? What kind of evidence are you referring to?

'Ruling out'? If this is in relation to the 4th quadrant comment you will see it is just one factor amongst others one might consider as to this person?s s dispositions and orientations.

Not many people over 50 in the UK would have heard of Billy Carter, his brother Jimmy may get double figures percentage wise.

With these Mystery Charts it's better to use people less well known. I would probably have seen the Brubeck chart before and maybe Redford's, and we know enough about memory now to know how even a fleeting look can remain encoded in the semantic memory.

Tom wrote:RE: Billy Carter and fame

As I mentioned in the post above I tend to forget that everyone at Skyscript hasn't been here as long as I have and to add to that, I tend to forget everyone here isn't my age. I assumed every American would be familiar with Billy Carter, but his brother's administration ended over 30 years ago, and Billy died 24 years ago, and to me, none of that seems all that long ago, but it was.

It was not my intention to criticize your choice. The game was perfect.

What I meant it is just that it's impossible to comment the chart after knowing the native's identity for me, because Billy Carter is totally unknown here, at least now, I don't know 25 years ago. For Robert Redford I could say more because he is known everywhere- or you could choose someone like Antonio Banderas

People can better visualize the chart they have in front, I don't know if I explained what I meant.

in every case for me everything is ok, I have no problem with whatever chart you want to choose.

margherita

If anyone is wondering what happened to the prolonged-to-the-point-of-silly discussion about a modern source of reference, I have removed it, and all comments that perpetuated it, leaving only the references that are reasonable within this, the forum for discussion of traditional techniques.

If anyone is uncertain about what the remit of this forum is, please read this post where Tom explains it clearly.Please read before posting in this forum

Margherita wrote:

I agree with Gabe.

I would take Mars as almuten on vital places (Ibn Ezra) but Jupiter as lord of the chart, being in its dignities.

Saturn except to be in angle, has very little power to do something good

I think we are comparing apples and pears here as Gabe and I were discussing an assessment of the chart using a distinctly hellenistic approach using whole sign houses. In particular we were exploring the hellenistic technique of identification of the Kurios or Master of the Nativity. In that technique planets in cadent whole sign houses would not be seen as 'fit for business' as the Master of the Nativity. They would therefore not be candidates for the Kurios. Our discussion of Saturn was specifically because it is in the 1st house using WS houses. However, it is clearly in a less active or busy part of the house as it is far removed from the angle.

Mark

hi mark,

saturn is less removed from the angle then say jupiter or moon are from the angles in chart 2.. further more the moon is applying directly to this same saturn, as opposed to it applying to jupiter for example.. it is true saturn is in the sign pisces, ruled by jupiter and therefore jupiter would have more power, but really and this is part of my ongoing question to people here - what do you think has more power? a planet on an angle, or the ruler of that planet? if you go by morins words who doesn't use whole signs - he would say the planet itself is where the power is..

the way i see it there is a huge amount of subjectivity built into our views whereby we can nod our heads in agreement about something after the fact, but it is much more complicated to do this before the fact of our knowing who the chart belongs to.. just my 2c's and please don't take anything i say personally as it is again a general observation on how so much of what astrologers do has a built in subjective rationale that most seem to take for granted.. cheers james

Mark wrote:Margherita wrote:

I think we are comparing apples and pears here as Gabe and I were discussing an assessment of the chart using a distinctly hellenistic approach using whole sign houses.
Mark

In effect it was you who mentioned Kurios as listed by Schmidt (or Hand I don't remember) and I just believed that Gabe was talking about the Lord of Geniture without mentioning a particular astrological period or school of thought.

Evidently I hastily read and I did not pick the word Hellenistic, sorry, especially because here it is not a problem of whole-sign houses or not, here Saturn is quite enough near to the Ascendant to be in an angle - more than 5 degrees but not so far from them.

And as Gabe said this Saturn is out of sect, retrograde, peregrine. I believe whoever - Hellenistic astrologer or not- would notice.

In every case if I was too hasty in replying, forgive me

margherita