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Hello varuna2

Again, interesting comments...

Re: "However, if this was not my inner nature you would then be encouraging me not to act according to my own inner nature."

Asking that you check the methods to make sure that they do in fact work with your secured data is more like proofreading. Surely, no one could find a philosophical ground for not proofreading something. There is NO down side possible... you might find errors and fix them. What negative could come from it? It's the same here...asking you to take others' ideas, but to test them with your own data is just good practice and what "ought" to happen. In that sense, I can't think that the suggestion in any way could really be against your "nature."

As for authority figures, we have the same opinion. There is no law which I feel is unjust or incorrect, that I won't gladly break it in protest. I love "The Duty of Civil Disobedience" and stand by that principle. If you don't agree with a law or condition, then to act as if it had power, is to give power to it. It is a DUTY to not follow laws that you disagree with, otherwise you are undifferentiated from those who agree with those laws.

As for authority figures in general, I have an Aries Midheaven and Mars square Uranus. All authority figures that I can think of have been challenged at one point or another, from Father to Boss to Policeman to Priest. The reaction is often along the lines of "who is this mortal who challenges my authority?" My reaction is more along the lines of "you may have to try and prove I'm mortal, because my will will outlast your authority."

Re: "For example, suppose I decided to start a cult. Now suppose there were many people who needed an authoritative cult leader and they became my followers. Would it not be because the inner nature of the followers demanded of them to become members of my cult (or any other cult). Would it be beneficial to encourage the cult followers to become independent, contrary to their own nature?"

People that are in a cult are not under their own control, so anything that leads or might lead to their freedom from oppression (even if it feels like heaven to them to be oppressed) would tend to be a good thing.

Re: "Alternatively, would it be helpful to encourage a cult leader to become more passive and submissive and dependent, contrary to their own inner nature?"

If they are a cult leader, then yes, it could very well be helpful. Jim Jones was a psychotic murderer...anything that broke his hold over his "sheep" would be a good thing...no matter what anyone's "natures" specifically are.

Acting contrary to someone's nature is not wrong if it is driven by their true will. I am mostly a shy person, prefer one step removed from the public. Still, at my last work, part of my function was driving around and giving instruction in front of roomfuls of managers. It's not something that I would normally choose...it's not in my nature to do so...but I wanted to do it and so I did do it. It was a great learning/growing experience.

If it's in someone's nature to sit at home, vegetate on the couch and stuff their feelings with junk food, then it can't be evil to suggest getting out of the house and getting some exercise. ie. all our "natures" are not necessarily healthy or good

Now, that being said...don't misconstrue my stance. I am very liberal oriented in terms of individual rights. If there is something that you really want to do (that doesn't hurt innocent people) then by all means, do it! A big part of why we're (all) here is to learn to USE our WILL constructively.

Peace

James

in my own research, have found the mean node works and the true node does not. see A Rectification Manual, Chapter 12 for examples.

http://regulus-astrology.com/table.html

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Martin Gansten's book on primary directions is probably considered the best one out there right now, so although I'm sure people have their own approaches that differ, I would still suggest getting this book to get to grips with primary directions and get a good gist of what it is and is not.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Primary-Directi ... 747&sr=8-1

I'm pretty sure I'm allowed recommend the book, despite Martin being a moderator on one of these forums. It isn't some kind of plug it's just what I consider to be a really useful source for primary directions. It's how I learned to understand primary directions myself so that's the only reason I recommend it.

Hello Paul,

Re: "It isn't some kind of plug..."

A "plug" is "a favorable public mention of a commercial product, business, or performance..."

I am just curious as to how the hawking of Martin's book is not a plug. (in your opinion) It certainly fits the definition.

I don't want to argue the point, it is only that when I read the comment about Martin's book and then you mentioned that it wasn't a plug, it reminded me of a documentary I once watched where some inmate had said, "I'm not a murderer, I've only killed one person."

Peace

James

Atlantean wrote:Hello Paul,

Re: "It isn't some kind of plug..."

A "plug" is "a favorable public mention of a commercial product, business, or performance..."

I am just curious as to how the hawking of Martin's book is not a plug. (in your opinion) It certainly fits the definition.

I don't want to argue the point, it is only that when I read the comment about Martin's book and then you mentioned that it wasn't a plug, it reminded me of a documentary I once watched where some inmate had said, "I'm not a murderer, I've only killed one person."

Peace

James

I normally consider a plug to be something that someone does that in some way benefits themselves. I don't benefit from Martin Gansten's book. I guess this is similar to when you mentioned and posted an image of Noel Tyl's book. It doesn't serve you yourself in any way and the whole purpose of the post is to provide a source that is useful to learn from.

I think I'm right in saying that most people would consider that book to be the book on primary directions right now. Which isn't to say it's a perfect book and that everyone agrees with everything that's written in it of course. But on the subject of learning about primary directions, and as Deb mentions it herself in the article that was linked to, it seems sensible to stop avoiding the elephant in the room.

Incidentally the PDF Deb had on directions goes on to link to a review of the book where it's praised and applauded. I think in terms of purchasing something to learn more about primary directions, I can't think of another 'recent' book that would serve.

EDIT

PS I know that in the book Martin refutes the claims of those who suggest that a particular house system works best with Primary Direction, a refutation that you would no doubt disagree with. I mentioned the book not to get into any debates about which particular preferences that different people who use primary directions find more appropriate, merely to the 'newbie' who is trying to learn what the hell a Naibod key is the in the first place, Martin's book goes through it all for someone ignorant of primary directions, as I myself was when I opened it up on page one. Whilst I'm certainly no expert, having read the book I certainly came away feeling I understood the gist of it. Considering how relatively cheap it is (I for one have certainly paid a lot more money for a lot less astrological quality in the past) it seems a no brainer to me to buy/borrow/steal! that book and learn what you can from it.

After that, like with all things, we should all make up our own minds about the opinions Martin has about those other issues. The gold isn't in Martin's personal considerations, but in the ability to convey in as simple a manner as possible just what primary directions actually are and how to calculate them, as well as some historical context for their use.

If you know of another book you'd recommend though then I'm sure many others would be interested in it too, I know I would be.

As far as I know it's perfectly all right to make favourable mention of a book one has found helpful, especially if it is relevant to the topic and forum of the discussion, even if the book in question happens to be authored by a moderator. I'm glad you like the book, Paul. There are one or two things I should like to improve on (if I ever get the free time), but overall it seems to work for most people I hear from.

Hello Paul

I have no problem with you plugging the book. To be honest, I expect Martin's book to be plugged here. I don't think such a plug violates any rules...and if it did, probably the rules are too tight.

That being said, it is still a plug. One doesn't have to personally benefit for it to be a plug.

If I say "Alexander Marr's book Prediction - Using Common and Prenatal Cycles is a great book, full of many important concepts and techniques", it is still a plug, whether I make money off of it or whether it's just a comment from a "fan."

Re: "I guess this is similar to when you mentioned and posted an image of Noel Tyl's book. It doesn't serve you yourself in any way and the whole purpose of the post is to provide a source that is useful to learn from."

Yes, you are totally correct, I feel. I certainly consider myself guilty of plugging the book in that instance and yet, it should be obvious I make no money off of it.

Re: "I think I'm right in saying that most people would consider that book to be the book on primary directions right now."

I would agree. To me, it's benefit is in that it might get people interested in Primary Directions, where otherwise they wouldn't. I don't think it presents the more modern discoveries relating to Primary Directions in enough detail, HOWEVER, its title implies that it is more a historical work and on that grounds, it does what it suggests. Bringing Primary Directions fully up to date will certainly require another work, probably from another author.

Re: Primary Directions

Thank you for the personal details regarding your experience and interest, as well as experience with Martin's book. It has done what you wanted from the book, so it was no doubt a good buy.

I think Primary Directions are amazing in that, contrasted with so very many of the dynamic systems in Astrology, that they are based on the rotation of the Earth as opposed to its revolution around the Sun. A very direct and drastic "departure" from transits, secondaries, solar returns, lunar returns, solar arcs, etc.

To me, it's a great technique... rectifications would be so very much more difficult and time consuming without them!

Peace

James

P.S. As for hawking the book here, I really have no problem with it. Someone can offer Morin bobble-head PEZ dispensers here and I wouldn't have a problem with that either. It is somewhat the nature of the internet that things are offered for sale most everywhere...

Atlantean wrote: That being said, it is still a plug. One doesn't have to personally benefit for it to be a plug.

I guess I always saw it slightly differently. I wonder then what the difference is between a plug and a recommendation. Seems to be blurring the lines between them.