Goca wrote:Althought bookmakers give Serbian singer Zeljko Joksimovic a great chance for winning I think he will not enter final. I asked this question:

Will Zeljko Joksimovic enter final of Eurosong 2012?
Chart data: 28 .Apr.2012 Beograd gmt+2 ASC=18Leo23
With fixed signs on all four angles, we have an immediate indication that the situation will stay as it is. As I am not his fan, he gets 7 house ruler Sa rx. This is not a good start. With rx ruler things may not turn out as planned. Rx means go backwards not advance. Moon is VOC. Moon are voters and Moon is in detriment of Sa rx, this shows a distinct lack of interest in him/his song. Enter final is 10th house matter, ruler is Ve. We need aspect between Sa and Ve, we have it but Me first aspect Sa, that is frustration and No answer to my question.

If someone think different please post your analyse.

On my great surprise, he entered final!

Goca wrote:So, who will be the winner?
"Regard the planets as standing still, then move the MC forward until it forms a major aspect with one of the planets. The sign in which this planet falls will give the winning country; the planet itself shows the song."(Frawley)
Here first aspected planet is Ma in Vi. According to titles of songs I think song "We Are The Heroes" will be winner. Title fit with planet Ma, Ma is in Vi fits with Belarus country (Belarus declared independence on 25 August 1991). Dispositor of Ma is Me, band (more people) "Litesound" perform it. Me is in 5 house so that is North by West direction, fits with Belarus position from Azerbaijan.

It seams all fits only in my head .

Once we know all finalists, I think I would come out with my second thoughts.

A day before the final Sweden is a strong favourite to win outright at odds 2.25. Russia comes second at 6.00, with Serbia and Italy following at 8.00 and 9.00 respectively.

Last year the French opera singer was a strong favourite to win outright at odds 2.50, but he failed to reach even top 10. So the bookies not always do manage to hit the point.

Astrological considerations:

1. If it were a soccer game, I would say that the type of non-agreement we have here amongst the rising sign, its lord and the lord of hour, with the latter being aversion to the rising sign and about to shift and both being disposed by a retrograde out-of-sect Venus, implies a draw. Perhaps, here it could import a very close contest with a very few votes deciding who will be the winner. As a rule, the lord of hour having descension or detriment in the ascending sign does not do well (with a few exceptions) for the favourites. Last year we had Scorpio rising with Venus ruling the hour (perhaps, it matters little, for in Europe at 21:00 o?clock we are customarily having Scorpio rising with Venus ruling the hour).

2. It is the first time when the customarily rising Scorpio culminates on Midheaven. It, in my opinion, is an important consideration to be watched out. I think it might be an indication for a Scorpio-ruled country.

3. The chart has almost all planets (including the luminaries) in the Western hemisphere, the West ? North quadrant being the weightiest containing the Sun, the natural ruler of glory and triumph, and Mercury, the final dispositor of all the planets. This might indicate that the winner will be from the West.

4. As I pointed out Mercury is the final dispositor of all the planets and the almuten of the chart (house and triplicity). He is also the lord of the annular eclipse. He must be playing a very significant role in the chart. He is scorched by the Sun and conjunct South Node. The Sun is a natural ruler for glory and triumph playing also the role of the dispositor of vote ? the Moon, whereas the South Node exalts in Gemini, but I have neither used exaltation or fall of the Nodes nor seen others do. If it were a soccer game, I wouldn?t say that a Mercury-ruled team is bound to lose. My concern is about Mercury?s lordship over the annular eclipse. I am out of wits here, whether it will be a testimony for a Mercury- ruled country or will ruin any hopes for a Mercury ruled country. My thesis is that a country should have been affected (for bad or worse depending on other factors) if an eclipse happens to be in any of the stakes of the sign (1st, 4th, 7th and 10th) taking lordship over the relevant country, the strongest effect being in the same sign. If we follow that concept, the eclipse must affect the countries ruled by Mercury and Jupiter.

5. I would note that first aspect the Moon made coming out of the eclipse was a sinister square to Mars, the ruler of MC in the contest chart. Could it be a testimony for a Scorpio ? ruled country or not, we shall see. I cannot quote the source at the moment, but the Moon?s first aspect in a new synodic cycle to a malefic (in particular without reception) is not considered good. Perhaps, it is a change for an underdog.

What astrological indications do we have for support of particular countries?

Sweden

Sweden is believed to be under the lordship of Aquarius.


Saturn is prominent in this chart ? having lordship over Capricorn ASC, placed in Libra, the sign of his exaltation, and the 10th from ASC. Saturn is well received (triplicity) by Mercury, the almuten of the chart and the lord of the eclipse. If it were a soccer chart, I would say that there are enough strong testimonies (despite some contrary ones) for Saturn to win.

Jupiter, the lord of hour is conjunct Algol, a star notorious for turning heads in all senses of the word. It fits Euphoria, the Sweden?s entry. Jupiter is in Taurus, a stake of Aquarius. It is always good to have a benefic in a stake.

The Moon (popular vote) is in Leo, the opposite sign of Aquarius. The Moon has just separated from the Sun (the favourite) and applying to Venus (the dispositor of Saturn) and Saturn; had the translation not been from Leo, the detriment of Saturn, this would have been a strong testimony for Sweden.

Venus has just separated from Saturn. Separation means a disregard, abandonment, lack of interest, etc. of the separating planet in whatever is signified by the planet from who it has separated, more the worse for the relevant planet if its dispositor has separated.

If we apply the method that all planets stand still but Midheaven moves forward until it reaches a major aspect with a planet, then the aspecting planet itself is the winning entry but the sign containing it is the winning country, the winning song is Mars in Virgo. If the method is valid to a certain point (for the confirmation of which more testing is required), there are no testimonies for the Sweden?s entry. The lyrics and the song itself do not seem to have any in common with a Virgo Mars.

All considered I am not sure that Sweden would win. In my opinion, the strongest ?no? testimony is the Moon in Leo. Gemini (a double - bodied sign) being the most crowded sign, in my opinion, seems to be a testimony for a group or a duo rather than a single singer.

Russia

Russia is also believed to be under the lordship of Aquarius.

A retrograde Saturn (grannies) being disposed by a retrograde Venus in Gemini, a double ? bodied sign, might be a testimony for the Russian grannies. Venus is on the cusp of the 6th house (also in the 6th sign from ASC), traditionally associated with the decline of life.

Having separated from the Sun (associated with the prime of life), the Moon applies to a retrograde Venus who disposes of Saturn (grannies). This is descriptive for the grannies, and I expect them doing well.

Russia might win, but a Leo Moon makes me a little bit sceptic about that.

Italy

Italy was my first option when I looked at the chart.


The Moon is in Leo which must be a strong testimony for Italy (a Leo ruled country), in particular considering that she is the sect luminary. She rules the seventh house which, among others, deals with love affairs, marriage and partnerships - relationships between man and woman in general. The Italian entry conforms to the subject. The Moon is in the tenth sign from the Scorpio - ruled Midheaven, which is a place of power according to Hellenistic and Arab tradition. She is in the South quarter (leaning to West) of the circle which geographically fits Italy.

If we apply the method according to which Mars in Virgo must be the winning entry, Italian?s entry might be one of the strongest candidates. Mars rules the 3rd and the 10th houses but the 4th and the 11th signs from the Capricorn ascendant, is himself placed in the 8th house but in the 9th sign from the ascendant. If we mix all stuff together, we can say that the lyrics of the entry mirror some of sort of associations Mars might have in the chart (his placement in the 8th being the strongest one). The Sun, the natural ruler of kings, ruling the 8th house also seems to be pretty descriptive for the lyrics:

?unbelievable,
I can?t wait to go
I like a rolling stone
you hit me BoomBoomBoom

if you were my king
would I be your queen?
stop breaking up my heart
you kill me BoomBoomBoom ??

If Italy is going to win, we should take into consideration also the Sun?s position. He does not aspect both the ascending and the culminating signs and is debilitated by being conjunct the South Node. He is receiving the Moon in his house, but unfortunately she is separating from her lord. Had the Moon been applying, I would say Italy will win. Separation, as I pointed out, is equal to a disregard, abandonment, loss of interest in whatever is signified by that planet. After separation, she is applying to Venus (by a sinister sextile) who disposes Saturn in Libra. It does not bode well for the Sun.

Ireland

Ireland has the 5th shortest odds ? 15.00. Actually, I wonder why? Although the guys are making some good show, the song itself fails to adhere. The chart seems not to support the Irish entry ?Waterline?, for there, with the exception of the Scorpio Midheaven, is no water here. A strongly emphasized Gemini seems not to be enough, solely because they are the only twins participating.

UK

Odds 15.00
I do not see any particular indications in the chart that UK may win.

Jupiter ruled countries

Spain and Serbia

Serbia has pretty good odds (8:00) to win outright, but I do not think that it will. The lyrics seem not to mirror anything which may import Mars in the chart.
Jupiter?s position in the chart is weak, and he is in bad reception with Mars (the lord of MC). Also the eclipse in Gemini (detriment) seems not to support a Jupiter ? ruled country.

There are many songs (Romania?s, Greece?s, Cyprus? and other entries) which might fit Mars in Virgo and the bunch of planets in Gemini which is on the cusp of the 5th house. As already pointed out, Mercury is the almuten of the chart (house and triplicity) and the lord of the eclipse. This might be an indication for a Mercury ? ruled country. Greece is the first strongest choice here. Mars, the ruler of the MC, is in Virgo, which might a strong testimony, but will it be enough? I am not sure about the effect of the eclipse in Gemini, the 10th sign from Virgo. Will it be good or bad, or will not affect the outcome at all?

If we judge after the lyrics, I am not satisfied that the lyrics well mirror the qualities Mars might have in Virgo. The ?Aphrodisiac? seems to have nothing in common with Virgo, the sign Mars is in. It seems to be the subject of the 5th house with Mercury and the Sun on its cusp. If the key is the symbolism of the 5th house in Gemini, then I think that the Cyprian entry ?LalalaLove? fits better. The ?LalalaLove? has more in common with Gemini than the ?Aphrodisiac?.

Virgo, the sign in which is Mars, is a sign associated with melancholy, serenity, pristineness, etc. the qualities which, in my opinion, has the Iceland?s entry ?Never forget?. Fixed Star already pointed to this entry as worth watching out.

Iceland is a country which Nick Campion lists under the lordship of Scorpio, the sign which culminates in the event chart. Iceland has a bunch of planets in Gemini which might be an additional indication. But currently I am trying to judge the chart more as a horary.

Mars in the event chart rules the 3rd and the 10th house but the 4th and the 11th signs from the Capricorn ascendant, is himself placed in the 8th house but in the 9th sign from the ascendant. The song, in my opinion, has the quality of Mars being placed in the 8th house (separation, detachment) and in the 9th sign (dreams) from the ascending sign.

In addition, the song, as Fixed Star pointed out, combines both the Mercury theme and a Venus retrograde looking back on the past, applying to conjunction. Venus has just separated from Saturn:

?She mourns beneath the moonlit sky
Remembering when they said goodbye
Where?s he one he used to know
It seems so long ago?

The Sun in the even chart is close to the nadir:

?And when the golden sun arises far across the sea
The dawn will break as darkness fades forever we?ll be free?

Gemini as a sign containing Venus and the Sun, both applying to each other and meeting Mars before the conjunction, seems also fit the overall picture, pointing to a male and female duo.

Mercury rules hands (so does Gemini) and playing an instrument might be descriptive also of this facet.

Gemini is a Western sign, placed in the West ? North quarter of the Chart. If we apply some analogy that the sign on the cusp of 4th and its lord has something to say where a lost or hidden thing could be, Venus in Gemini and on the cusp of the 6th points our direction to the West ? North. The Moon is in an Eastern sign (Leo) applying to Venus and Saturn in Western signs (Gemini and Libra respectively). The Moon rules the 7th house which is a destination point if we judge a travel horary. Cancer is due North.

What trouble me here are the odds. Iceland is ?quoted? at 51.00.

I would try luck with Iceland. After the event we shall see the ?obvious?.

Sweden win with 'Euphoria' and I collect ?500!

Russia in second position was very entertaining.
Serbia, who came no. 3, did exceptionally well!

I'm Euphoric!!

Fixed Star wrote:Equally significant is venus retrograde, given that a song contest is a venusian event. Venus has only been retrograde once in the history of the competition. This was in 1969 when there were 4 winners, because there were no rules in the event of a tie. This proved to be very embarrassing for the organisers.

Embarrassment:
The show started with something wrong with the sound mixing and last years winner ' Running Scared' was presented with an unsincronized playback.

Now there is a case in the news where a Norwegian journalist is reported to have been held by the Azerbaijan police and forced to kick and spit on the persian flag while being filmed. This is most unfortunate for the arrangers. Norwegian diplomats are trying to find out what happened and why the journalist was held.

Oh dear, this is so unfortunate for such a delightful arrangement.

Link: Aftenposten

Eurovision Winnings!

'We' got it right this year and from placing a bet on personal conclusion of the deductions made, a price money was collected from the exercise!However, I feel I want to share the honour with other participants of this years and also previous years Eurovision threads at Skyscript. It was something Janis added on May 10. that got me to start considering Euphoria seriously, and I shifted from Italy to Sweden.

On May 10. Janis wrote:Jupiter is conjunct Algol which fits Euphoria. Jupiter is in one of the stakes of Aquarius, the sign associated with Sweden, in Taurus, the fourth sign from Aquarius.

Then I would give credit to Goca in the 2011 contest who added a comment regarding the Moon's Via Combust position in Libra that added to an explaination of how Running Scared got it. It seems that we have to pay great attention to the lyrics! My opinion is that the Yod and the Moon's quintile with exalted Saturn lead up to the right answer this time.

The favourite won this year, and really, things don't always have to get too complicated, but with this victory I can say I have a score card with getting 3 of the winners right out of the 4 last Eurovision Song Contest - and placed money on it! I do not think I would have had such confidence and got this right without the analysis of astrology!

Links: Eurovision 2011, Eurovision 2010, Eurovision 2009

Well done, Andrew!!!

Since we know the winner, I must say that the method - all planets stand still but Midheaven moves forward until it reaches a major aspect with a planet, then the aspecting planet itself is the winning entry but the sign containing it is the winning country - totally failed. Euphoria seems to have no association with Mars in Virgo. It definitely must have qualities of Jupiter (lord of hour) conjunct Algol.

I placed to much on a Leo Moon as a "no" testimony for Sweden, otherwise I would have gone for the fave. I'm committed to making a deeper research; and surely next time we will find testimonies which matter and which not.

Betting has already started for Eurovision 2013!!

Unibet are already providing prices for next years contest! If you think the United Kingdom stands a better change next year, the price is 100:1!!

Denmark 5.50____Austria 25.00_____Georgia 75.00
Russia 6.50______Ireland 25.00_____Poland 75.00
Norway 7.50_____Romania 25.00____Albania 100.0
Switzerland 7.50__Estonia 30.00_____Armenia 100.0
Finland 8.00______Iceland 30.00_____Belarus 100.0
Germany 8.00____Azerbaijan 50.00__Bosnia & Herzegovina 100.0
Belgium 10.00____Croatia 50.00_____FYR Macedonia 100.0
Turkey 10.00_____Greece 50.00_____Latvia 100.0
France 15.00_____Hungary 50.00____Lithuania 100.0
Italy 15.00______Spain 50.00_______Malta 100.0
Serbia 15.00____Netherlands 50.00__Portugal 100.0
Sweden 15.00___Cyprus 75.00______Ukraine 100.0

United Kingdom 100.0
Bulgaria 150.0
Israel 150.0
Moldova 150.0
Slovakia 150.0
Slovenia 150.0
Montenegro 200.0

However they do it, I don't know! Personally, I have no objections to either the British or Bosnia & Herzegovinian entry. Iceland at 30:1?

The UK may withdraw from next years contest! (Link)

Eurovision 2013

Here is the chart for 2013 - providing the final is held in Stockholm.
That is if any of you want to start writing a text or sorting out your favourites. I'll get back to a new thread for this contest as the time gets closer.

Andrew Bevan wrote: However they do it, I don't know!

Maybe they have an astrologer down there in eurobet!
It seems they have have given higher possibilities to the countries surroundign Sweden.. Moon disposed by mercury in Gem = pointing to neighbours??

Anyway, I would also like to thank & congratulate you, Andrew, as well as the rest fellow members ?Goca & Janis- who are regular in this kind of threads. It?s really fascinating searching for the winner, sort of reading a crime series book! I should have tried to learn from your previous Eurovision topics first, before I lose my money! Well, as they say, unless you fail somewhere, you don?t learn!

Possibly this don?t mean a thing, but after reading your delineations about 2009, 2010 & 2011 Eurovision contests, I noticed that L1 itself possibly provides useful information.

2009, L1=Jup conj Neptune & Moon (?Fairy Tale?)
2010, L1=Mars, in Leo, giving the feature of ?someone standing alone?, as you noticed before ?Satellite? wins
2011, L1=Mars, in detr (Tau) in 6H, where you amazingly said it ?has something to do about functionality and solving a problem? (?Runing Scared?!!)

Similar, this year?s ?Euphoria? , maybe in the end had also to do with L1, Saturn, the singer?s performance in particular, as she seemed as someone looking its equilibrium (Saturn in Libra ) through Asian spiritualism (in 9H)

regards,
Georgia

Thanks Georgia,

geo wrote:It?s really fascinating searching for the winner, sort of reading a crime series book! I should have tried to learn from your previous Eurovision topics first, before I lose my money! Well, as they say, unless you fail somewhere, you don?t learn!

This is so true - it is like a detective game! Many parts of the puzzle have to be taken into consideration before they can be eliminated, so everyone participating is making an important contribution no matter at what end of the problem they are working!

Putting money on your predicions has to do with commitment. This requires some dicipline, but there is the additional focus and learning. Showing your commitment makes you trustworthy. Eventually, you might experience pride in your skill and/or profits, whether small or large!

Maybe Moon in Virgo opposite Neptune in next years chart will have something to do with sorting things out, searching, dreaming, caring for fragile matters.. things like that. I am also wondering whether the cadent Moon will move things away from the obvious favourite, but I am in no way certain. And then when we have looked at all the material, we can change or make up our mind.

Congratulations on your win Andrew! By the time of the contest I became concerned that my prediction regarding Iceland was wrong because their odds changed dramatically. This meant that my initial rule of thumb about odds was no longer true and makes me think it is best to predict as close as possible to the event. I was quite pleased with my Estonia prediction though since they ended up in the top 10, which is much better than expected.

I ruled out Sweden, because I felt sure that Mars in Virgo, plus moon in the seventh house indicated a couple. I later considered the fact that because the male dancer lifts her up during the routine, it might not be counted as a solo performance. Although Loreen has mars in virgo natally, I could not see enough indications in the Swedish chart. The last times they have one there has always been a close aspect between the sun and the moon, but maybe the moon in the sign of the sun was sufficient to continue the theme.

As for the mercury combust in the fifth house, perhaps it indicates confused gamblers and speculaters! I hadn't considered the emphasis on the fifth house, echoed by the moon in Leo. I guess euphoria is an altered state of mind, which is nonetheless positive. So what about the venus retrograde in Gemini? She moved her arms and legs around a lot, and did a strange sideways dance. There was no tie in the final, but apparently there was in one of the semis in terms of the qualifiers.

I think next year, I'll be more careful not to rule out the favourite.