Lunlumo wrote:Let's be honest - over the years (in whatever forum) the predictions all in all have not been very satisfying.

I have to agree with you, but let's keep messing around with it - taking an academic approach. We are not up against the Octopus Paul this time round. Besides, it is a learning experience. Astrologers are not only supposed to predict, but also to observe. And come up with ideas.

However: the times I was successful were with charts of the (probable) end of a match - ("probable" - as in finals and semi finals extra time, 30 min. or even more... cannot be ruled out). The end of a match relocated to the capitals of the two teams.

This is a fresh idea. From the perspective of a contest, I have been wondering whether it was the opening match or the final that should be considered. In the Eurovision, where there now are two qualifying semi-finals, it is still the chart for the final that appears to provide the leading clues.

The end of a match relocated to the capitals of the two teams.

Whether the beginning or the end of the match, I suppose a relocated chart could be considered, but it is still the match ground that is the site of the battle!

I had some success with a horary appoach on previous occasions (1986), (2006), but due to the lack of such a chart that is why I offered the chart for opening the this thread as such a 'groundbreaking moment'. Mars on the MC is lord of both Asc. and the 5th. Mars could do well, being Germany and others, or there could be the emphasis on Virgo, which i.e. is Croatia. Although I was listening in on the match between Norway and Croatia on Saturday and noticed with interest that one of the key-figures on the Croatian team originated from Brazil, ruled by Virgo!

At Betfair it is possible to back Spain as the outright winner at the odds of 3,9:1. I do like the prospects for Germany and if you decide to go for one of the most favoured options of Spain/Germany in the final, this can be backed at the odds of 9:1, which is quite good in terms of risk/reward. Additionally, I am trying to pick up a stake involving Croatia as an outsider, just to have something in the bag involving Virgo. I would say my greatest vulnerability, as I consider it myself, is probably to the Netherlands. They beat Northern Ireland 6-0 on Saturday. The Netherlands are ruled by Cancer and this is the location of the Moon in the thread chart that I am considering as if it were a horary.

Lunlumo wrote;

The end of a match relocated to the capitals of the two teams.
This suprisingly often leads to good results.

Yes. I recall you mentioning this method during the Skyscript thread on the last World cup. As you state it did seem to be very reflective of the result . It certainly seemed effective in all the matches I checked out. The only problem being as you indicate the actual finish time if there is excessive injury time or if extra time is involved.

Andrew wrote:

This is a fresh idea. From the perspective of a contest, I have been wondering whether it was the opening match or the final that should be considered. In the Eurovision, where there now are two qualifying semi-finals, it is still the chart for the final that appears to provide the leading clues.

Well I bow down to your knowledge on predicting Eurovision..its second to none! Your right if we look at Euro 2012 as a contest overall. However, it boils down to a series of individual matches between two teams/countries not 26 nations competing against each other. Looking at what is happening in the times for the two relocated capitals therefore seem valid in this instance.

It would be a lot of work but i wonder how Lunlumo's method would fair for Eurovision? I dont have the time to research this but it seems intriguing.

Mark

In comment to Mark and Lunlumo's recent posts:

I am wondering whether the horary approach shows the nation more specifically, and the fixture shows what is topical. I.e. the chart for the final of the Eurovision may describe the song and the lyrics more than the nation. Maybe the fixture of a football match decribes the quality of the moment in a similar fashion. I m not sure whether the chart for the final will reveal which teams are playing, if so then maybe only partially...

With danger of repeating myself, I think that the chart for the final with Saturn, Lord of the ascendant, exalted, elevated and in the nonagesimal, regarding the ascendant, together the Jupiter, dispositor of both the Moon and her North Node in Sagittarius, joined to the Moon's South node - shows that Spain may defend their title and the trophy will return to where it is coming from.

There is the interesting participation of Mars in Virgo, where Mars could be a Mars-ruled country (Germany, England or Denmark) and Germany are according to bookmakers 2nd favourites to win the title. However, Virgo could be Croatia and I have included them as an outsider. The lunation makes interesting aspects to their national chart. This would mean that Croatia would advance from group C, probably at the cost of Italy. This would reason too - because we have the lunar eclipse of June 4. in the immediate north of Italy.

One more day now and the contest will get started!

Hi Andrew,

noganisimal is a new word to me. Could you explain? A google search of the internet only comes up with your post here!

Mark

Mark wrote:noganisimal is a new word to me. Could you explain? A google search of the internet only comes up with your post here!

Well, now I've edited the error, so your post gets the honors instead.

Explanation:
I was 6 years old when the family emigrated to Norway, so English is my mother tongue - however, we're talking over 40 years ago and on a scholary level English is a second language. Writing most articles requires a dictionary. In particular, the rules of punctuation are quite different - Norwegian tending to be expressed in terms of shorter sentences with a more frequent use of the comma. Other times I am simply typing too fast, getting my fingers in a knot - or too many ventures are up in the air at the same time.

I could really do with a proof-reader sometimes. D'ya think you could be interested in the job? When are you coming to Norway?

Opening Match

I am reposting the opening match between Poland and Greece. Maybe that will make it more visual and easy to relocate in the discussion. The Opening Marcth may be interesting for the tournament as a whole, but here we can evaluate the odds of the Polish and Greek.
Poland - Greece,
Odds: 1,95 3,25 4,40
Asc 17SC35 MC 6VI45 Moon 14AQ48 POF 14CN08
Day Venus, Hour Moon - radical by shared powers with asc. but in the fall of the Moon.

Poland are favourites, but Mars, L1, sextile the asc through signs of long ascension and the Moon inconjuct POF could be the obstacles. This type of radicailty has to be monitored. How does it work!?

Mars L1 for favourites Poland isn't strongly dignified however its in 10th sextile the ASC so the positives balance the negatives in this case I feel. Moreover L7 Venus is combust and that is usually a dire position for the ruler so I cannot see Greece winning this match.

I would go for a Poland victory in the opening game but nothing ecstatic so probably by one goal.

ps. if I fail I will study carefully Lunlumo's method.

Some considerations before the first game

I noted that the hour switches from Moon's to Saturn's in 3 minutes. This seems to be the pattern of "the guards cought on the bridge" and quite often has proved to be a draw.

If we use the method which places the favourite on ASC (Frawley's one), then it is obvious who shall win.

Mars, L 1, is advancing on an angle, Venus, L 7, is retrograde and combust.

Moreover, the Moon after seperation from Venus, L 7 and dispositor of Jupiter, L 4, by trine immediately trines APOF at (15 GE 52). This, according to Frawley, is another strong testimony for the favourite. Mars, L 1, is closely squared by the Sun, this might be a testimony for Poland conceding a goal.

I would like to monitor what impact on the outcome has the power of the sect luminary and its dispositor, POF and its dispositor and the lord of hour and its dispositor. In general, my thesis is that any affliction in this regard must, to a lesser or greater extent, harm the favourites.

In the chart we have POF conjunct Siriuss, a relatively close trine to ASC (03:26), aversion its ruler Moon (partile 150).

If we use the jerseys colours - Poland white and Greece blue - the significators are the Moon and Jupiter.

The Moon seems to be in a better shape that Jupiter. The Moon is in a stake of Scorpio, closely squaring ASC (02:46), received by Saturn (the dispositor and triplicity ruler) and Venus (bound ruler). The Moon casts her antisca directly on ASC.

Jupiter (blue) is in the bounds of Mars, who regards he from Virgo, his detriment; Venus, his dispositor, is in aversion in Gemini, his detriment; only the Moon has a good regard to Jupiter (from a stake). But here the Moon is Poland's significator and overcomes Jupiter (Greece) from the 10th sign.

The Moon (dispositor of POF and the ruler of hour) after seperation from Venus, L 7 and and dispositor of Jupiter, L 4, //Neptune, trines APOF and Sun.

All considered it seems that Poland will win.

This seems to be without considering mundane factors. Poland is listed under Taurus lordship; unfortunately Venus is in too a bad shape (combust and retrograde); Mercury (ruler of Virgo - Greece) is more favourably placed. Let's see to what extent mundane factors should be considered in judging such charts.

Hello Andrew,

Sorry I wasn't being pedantic. I was just genuinely curious it was a new term. Actually it still is for me as the word you did mean: Nonagesimal is also new to me. However, I was able to find a definition in an astrological dictionary:

The highest point of the Ecliptic above the Horizon, therefore exactly 90? from both Asc. and Dsc. Not to be confused with the Midheaven.

Thanks

Mark

Poland - Greece 1-1

On May 27. I wrote:The Moon is intercepted and cadent. Maybe there are nerves and caution, or matters may lie into the deep at the start of the this tournement. My mind is not settled, but I feel like moving away from the favourite and making the draw a starting-point for further discussion.

Then earlier today I wrote:Poland are favourites, but Mars, L1, sextile the asc through signs of long ascension and the Moon inconjuct POF could be the obstacles.

I'm quite pleased with how this worked out - although I was not sure about anything and hadn't put money on the game. I can easily appreciate the judgements of both Janis and Daz, and know where you were coming from. It was just a matter of testing out a few observations I'd made over the last matches. Seem to have got it right this time, but will have to test it out again on a future occasion.

Mark wrote:Sorry I wasn't being pedantic. I was just genuinely curious it was a new term. Actually it still is for me as the word you did mean: Nonagesimal is also new to me.

Golly Mark! I thought you were having me on and I was too embarrassed by the fact my slippery fingers. The language thing does make things escape my eye without me noticing. The term nonagesimal I first came across in Margaret Hone's Textbook of astrology and as a part of early Mayo School training. I often find the nonagesimal interesting in terms of planetary elevation, and in the Arctic the nonagesimal may be in the northern hemisphere and coincide with the Midnight Sun, i.e. the highest portion of the ecliptic in the sky which may divert from the Midheaven (culiminating degree in the South) and actually be found toward the North.

'Pedantic' - I'll have to look that one up...