I am pretty experienced at most kinds of horary questions, but not with legal questions, so I was hoping I could get some feedback on this chart.

The situation is that a fried asked me to do one about his upcoming civil action. Last summer he hired a general contractor/carpenter to do put a new roof on his vacation property, a nice old camp on the water in Maine. The contractor turned out to be an irresponsible druggie who did more damage then good. My friend had to fire him and hire a new person to repair the damage and finish the job. Back in January my friend took the contractor to civil court and won a judgment against the deadbeat druggie contractor. Now they have finally tracked the guy down and they have a hearing date for when the contractor has to come in to show his assets so my friend can get his money back. He asked for the general outcome of the case.

The date is August 8, at 12:59 PM, Falls Church, Virginia, 38? N 53?, 77? W 10?, Eastern Daylight Time (Greenwich +4). That gives a rising sign of 6? 01? Scorpio.

To make things simpler, my friend?s name is Andy.

The striking thing is that there are 5 (!) planets on one or another of the cusps. That's a first for me. Andy is the 1st house, Mars, tightly conjoin the 7th house. The contractor is Venus in on the cusp of the 11th. The judge and outcome of the case is Leo, and the Sun is conjunct the 10th house cusp. Mercury is also on the cusp of the 10th and Jupiter is on the cusp of the 12th. The chart is radical, as the hour is Venus, which is of the same nature as the Scorpio ASC.

The Moon is Void of Course, but its past course describes the situation. Andy asked the court to serve the papers on the contractor, but being the deadbeat that he is, he's been kicked out of a series of flophouses and mobile homes. The police finally caught up with him and he was served the papers. The Moon just went from a trine with Mars (Andy) to being conjunct Venus (the contractor). So the contractor has received the papers. The Moon being Void of Course suggests that this is all that can be done.

The judge is strong and fair and is his own house and sign. So justice will be done.

Mars (Andy) is in the 7th house. This part gave me some trouble. Mars is seriously debilitated, more so than Venus, the contractor. But Mars is in the 7th, so I take that means that Andy will prevail. It's like he's taken his enemy's castle. Is that right in a legal case? If so, then what should I make of Venus being stronger than Mars? Could that mean that Andy has more to lose? He's lost some money, but it seems that the contractor's situation is worse. His wife threw him out of the house, and he's threatened with jail if he doesn't show up at court this time. He also has some health problems, serious ones at that. I think those show up in the chart, but I'll skip that for now. What I can't explain is how to interpret Venus being less debilitated than Mars. Does anyone have any thoughts?

I also can't explain the placing of Venus (the contractor) in the 11th house. That would seem to be a fortunate placement, but there it is. You could turn the chart, and then it's the 5th house, which could show he's on a drunken binge, but I don't like to turn a chart unless I have to.

Andy asked would the guy show up at the court date. I don't see how the 11th house fits into this. I am totally stuck on that. Maybe this is a case where we have to set aside common sense, and say that the contractor's position isn't as bad as it seems, but that's hard to believe. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what Venus in the 11th means?

Andy also asked about if he would get any money from the guy. The contractor's money is the turned 2nd house, the radical 8th house, Mercury, which is in the 10th, under the sway of the judge. It's also combust so I think that the judge has more control over the contractor's own money than he does himself. Also Mercury is the natural ruler of money.

Andy's money is shown by the 2nd house, Jupiter, conjunct the 12th house and conjunct the south node. So Andy's finances are hopeless in regards to the house.

There is an applying square between Mercury (the contractor's money) and Mars (Andy.) But there is precious little reception between them. Both are moving slowly and of course Mercury is retrograde, but on the day of perfection Mercury is moving a bit faster, so Mercury applies to Mars. Perhaps this doesn't matter because if money is flowing to Andy, it will only be because the judge, the Sun has ordered it, and the Sun has all the power over Mercury.

I?d say that the since Mercury will be combust the Sun when it applies to Mars, that the contractor will not be able to pay any money to Andy. A combust significator has no power to do what is promised.

But... I do notice that after Mercury (the contractor's money) turns direct it does make a sextile with Jupiter (Andy's money). That may hold out some hope that he gets something out of the case, but only after a turn of events (Mercury going direct).

That second aspect, Mercury sextile Jupiter happens after Mercury is no longer combust and is direct again. So there are two promised chances for my friend to get his money back. However, at the later date, the one indicated by Mercury sextile Jupiter, Andy will have an easier time to get something from him. Mercury will no longer be combust, and at the exact time of this second aspect, Jupiter and Mercury will be in mutual reception by triplicity, and they will be connected by an easy sextile.

How much will he get? Mercury will have no dignity of its own. It will be in mutual reception with the Sun but I assume that's more about the judge ordering the contractor to pay Andy back. But the mutual reception between Mercury and Jupiter shows that the contractor is trying to make payment, even if he is coerced by the court. I'd say that with Mercury having no dignity, it wouldn?t be much money.

Andy is also worried about the contractor vandalizing his camp. The camp is the 4th house, Saturn. Mars has just separated from a square with Saturn and there are no more aspects coming to Saturn. So whatever damage that has been done is all that will happen to the camp. But notice that the fate of the camp, Saturn, is also controlled by the Sun, the judge. The judge holds all the cards here.

I?ll tease everyone here to see if you can see this. I know that the contractor does have some health problems. You?d have to turn the chart to see them. So the radical 12th becomes the turned 6th house. You have Jupiter in Libra affecting his health. Any guesses on the nature of the illness? I would not have seen this in this chart, but I know the contractor and his medical problems.

I think I have this chart understood except for Venus in the 11th, the weakness of Mars compared to Venus, and Mars? presence in the 7th house, but I welcome any thoughts on it.

Mark,

I'd say with the Moon VOC, that even if the judge awards your friend payment, and I have no doubt he will, the bad contractor won't be able to pay more than a token amount if anything.

As for the Jupiter in Libra and any health problems, I wonder if diabetes or kidney problems are indicated.

As for the Jupiter in Libra and any health problems, I wonder if diabetes or kidney problems are indicated.

Bingo! You win! Give the young lady a cupie doll!

I wanted to have someone else besides me say this so I can show my friend that I am not making this all up.

I agree with what you said about the Moon being VOC. It's an overall indicator that he doesn't get what he wants, which is his money back.

So this is a valid and descriptive chart, and that makes me wonder even more about why Venus, the contractor is in the 11th house? I still don't understand that, or how to interpret Venus being more essentially dignified than Mars. And I am not sure how to answer the question as to whether the contractor will show up in court. If he doesn't, my friend has to decide whether he wants the police to jail the contractor. This is a tough decision because the man's wife, or ex-wife, has been a friend of his for over 20 years. If Venus were in the 10th house, I'd say that he would show up at court, but the 11th? I can't think of how to interpret that.

Hi MarkF,

Venus in 11th house - if it was not a horary chart it would be a good sign. Maybe it has something to do with his wife being friends with your friend ?

A few months ago there was one horary chart which gave an optimistic answer to my question - "Romantic Telepathy Horary" - the problem is I do not know when should that meeting take place...If you have some spare time - could you try to solve it for me? (timing in horary is Chinese for me...).

LittleMermaid
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MarkF wrote:Mars (Andy) is in the 7th house. This part gave me some trouble. Mars is seriously debilitated, more so than Venus, the contractor. But Mars is in the 7th, so I take that means that Andy will prevail. It's like he's taken his enemy's castle. Is that right in a legal case?

I, too, would really like to know the answer to this question. I was faced with this issue the other day when I was looking at the event Chart for Schapelles Corby's re-hearing on 20 July. Her significator (Jupiter) was placed in the 1st House (prosecutor). whether it is an event chart, or an horary, the dilemma is the same: in a piece of litigation, what do we make of one party placed in the other party's house?

I must say, my intuition went the other way from you. I felt that the defendant's significator (ruler of the 7th) placed in the prosecutor's house (the 1st) was a negative thing i.e. the defendant was literally "in the hands of the prosecutor." The prosecutor had all the power; and had power over the defendant.

The same applies to a civil case. I would have thought the defendant would be stronger in his/her own house; the plaintiff stronger when in his/her own house.

Here, Andy's planet (Mars) is in the seventh. Do you really think that is a position of power? I suppose there are two ways of looking at this, but they lead to opposite results!!

P.S: Mark, don't you think Venus in the 11th could be symbolic of the fact that the connection to this man was through friendship, albeit, the wife's??

The 11th house is a very beneficial house, and in a legal chart, represents freedom and release, so it seems unlikely the man will be imprisoned....

Both good ideas, but I am having trouble accepting them.

My friend Andy has done nothing but complain about this guy for the last year, so it's hard to believe he's still a friend. And he hasn't spoken to his real friend here, the man's ex-wife, since all of this trouble.

It isn't bothering me a great deal, but it doesn't make sense to me. The rest of the chart is so descrptive that it must be telling me something here that I don't want to or can't see.

But Mars is in the 7th, so I take that means that Andy will prevail. It's like he's taken his enemy's castle. Is that right in a legal case?

I agree with kurgal on this one. Lilly says somewhere that if the lord of the 7th is in the ascendant then the querent will prevail but if the lord of the 1st is in the 7th, the quesited will prevail. I haven't had a look at the chart but if Mars is significantly weaker than Venus and is in the 7th, it is likely Andy will not win his case.

MarkF wrote:What I can't explain is how to interpret Venus being less debilitated than Mars. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Why not the obvious? The contractor ends up better off than Andy! Andy is, I think, investing a lot of time, effort, and energy (not to mention money) in pursuing this guy. In the end it might not be worth it. The phrase "winning the battle, but losing the war" springs to mind....And "you can't get blood out of a stone."....

Andy is aggressively pursuing this guy (and this litigation), as shown by Mars exactly conjunct the 7th. But it may not pay off for him in the end.

Just a thought!

Well that's kind of my thought too. Andy knows he is not likely to get any money of the deadbeat. The last he heard of the guy was that he had stolen his own mother's bank card and had used it to take money from her, probably to buy drugs. This is a very low person. So I guess the guy doesn't have much to lose, since he's lost it all already, while Andy has lost a lot of money, time and effort. I guess I had expected to find the contractor's planet weaker and maybe in the 12th house, not stronger and in the 11th. But what I hear is that our own ego, the desire to see what we want to see or what we think should be there, is the biggest obstacle in interpretation. So be it. Then the interpretation is that justice will be served (Sun in the 10th) but that Andy will come out the worse for it.

I would concur with that judgment.

The problem is that it conflicts with "common-sense." Andy has already won judgment against the defendant; this hearing is only to determine assets, and capacity to pay. So there is no chance that Andy will "lose" and the contractor "win," in the ordinary sense; Andy has already "won." It therefore seems odd that the contractor should have more essential dignity than Andy in the chart.

I too would have expected to see the contractor with less dignity, and in a weaker house. (Having said that, Venus is in the sign of her Fall). But you know, these deadbeats sometimes have a way of attracting help to them. This deadbeat may have attracted some financial help that has put him in a better and stronger position (albeit temporarily).

I once had a real loser of a client, a wife-beater, who had inflicted some pretty bad injuries on his wife. But every time he had a court hearing, he got the most sympathetic and lenient judge. At every single court appearance, everything always worked in his favour....it was quite bizarre. Until the day of his sentencing of course. But on that day, he ran away from the Court while the case was stood down! To this day, the police have not found him....as luck would have it, the police never asked for his passport as a condition of bail, and he probably left the country (back home, to the Islands). He escaped justice in this country, yet it would be hard to find someone less deserving.

I don't know if this is a similar thing, but with the defendant's significator in the 11th, it doesn't look like he' s being treated too harshly by the Judge either...

Right and this is where reality enters into this. This is a civil case, a case over money. If the contractor proves that he has no assets, then all the court can do is put a lien on his future wages, if any. I think Andy's only other option would be to puruse the guy's ex-wife, his own friend, as she would be liable for debts incurred while they were married. So, as long as he shows up at the hearing, he "wins". sort of.

But I am going to keep my eye on this case as there does seem to be more promise in it for the contractor.