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15 by Tom
Jimmy Carter is the classic example of what I wrote about. He was elected unexpectedly as virtually no one ever heard of him prior to his running for President. Mostly his election was a reaction to the Watergate era. "Hello my name is Jimmy Carter, I'm running for President, and I am not a lawyer." That is how he introduced himself during the primaries because most of the jailed Watergate figures were lawyers.

Even with the Watergate scandals fresh in the public's mind, he barely defeated unelected incumbent Gerald Ford in what was, in 1976, the closest election in modern American history. Four years later he would lose in the biggest landslide since George Washington was unanimously elected the first President. To say that the honors bestowed on him by electing him President were short lived is the understatement of the decade.

Right now Jimmy Carter is a celebrity on account of his once holding high office, and a friendly (to him) media would like the public to forget his tenure. But my statement is correct. The placement of Carter's MC ruler in fall and in the 1st house but not in the same sign as the ASC is an indication that the honors received by the native, meaning high honors not pats on the back by sycophants, would be short lived. He achieved high honor and in no time the public regretted their choice. If the US had a parliamentary system, he wouldn't have lasted until 1980. He fits the bill perfectly.

And there is nothing in my statement that precludes short lived honors that are not followed by ignominy. It means only what it says, honors, if they occur, are likely to be short lived. If he was re-elected, and completed the second term, then I'd say this did not apply.

16 by Mjacob
Well if Boris does make to prime minister it will be interesting to see how long it lasts. Tom, you were wise to make clear his citizenship as we do not want to start an Obama-style Internet rumour that says he is ineligible to stand.

To be fair to him he has held down a job;in journalism. Something to fall back on if his political career does indeed go pear-shaped.

Regards to all

Matthew

17 by james_m
we disagree on carter... any falling has ultimately been replaced with rising, lol.

i am curious for ya'll to apply the same logic to rod stewart who has moon in scorp ruling over the 10th as well.. thanks -

18 by pankajdubey
Look at his London relocated chart to see the honours.

10th lord mercury is in Gemini in an angle(7th).
10th house Virgo recieves a wide trine from Jupiter.

Sagittarius rises- Say no more about clowning,bumbling Boris :)
He is a very clever man.

The natal chart would not go away but there was something in the natal that made him succeed in the relocated land.

PD

20 by Mjacob
Thank you PD and Kirk.

I can't add much on relocations but I would like to reply to Kirk.

Certainly the natal chart alone does not say everything. Lilly on eminence points out that a boy born a prince may have a similar nativity to a boy born born into beggary but only the former is likely to be a king. St Augustine mentions astro twins born in his town, one to a grandee and one to a slave and makes the same point. The author of Christian Astrology and the Christian author writing against astrology both come to the same conclusion.

Do people succeed solely by there own efforts and attitude? I recall a radio documentary on unemployment where a young jobseeker made an audio diary about her search for work. She did everthing she could and had a positive outlook and a cheerful voice as she called the agency every monday. After weeks of getting nowhere she ended up crying into the microphone saying she couldn't keep up the act anymore. They did not post her chart but I daresay that the previous mundane revolution would have told the story of recession.

In contrast I did see a traditional author distinguish between those who strive for success and those who have have it dropped in their lap.

I am not sure making it in this world is a reward for hard work or having the "right" mindset. Think of wicked rich people.

So Kirk while you are welcome to have an opinion on this ask youself is it an opinion based on traditional astrology. Remember which forum you are on.

Maybe some folk are just lucky.

Regards and best wishes

Matthew

23 by james_m
hi pankajdubey

if you are going to go with a modern technique i would go with jupiter/pluto midpoint = midheaven, but i figured the thought police might get me if i mentioned that on the trad and ancient technique forum..

hi gem,

i was wondering if someone would point out that little loophole to make an exception to lord of 10th and in it's fall in scorpio.. thanks for pointing out the loophole in stewarts chart that doesn't apply to carters.. so, it now has to do with it being in the first, but not in the same sign as the ascendant? i am curious as to what the central thrust of the ancient wisdom/logic on this is.. thanks..
Tom wrote:
Lord 10 in the first, but not in the same sign as the ASC and in fall indicates whatever honors or recognition he achieves, it will be short lived.

24 by pankajdubey
james_m wrote:hi pankajdubey

if you are going to go with a modern technique i would go with jupiter/pluto midpoint = midheaven, but i figured the thought police might get me if i mentioned that on the trad and ancient technique forum..
Beware !
Mind readers lurk here.
So even if you had not mentioned mid-point,you could have been found out :D

I haven't used much midpoints in relocation or natal but I do like Pluto whether a planet or planetoid.I won't discuss it here because it does not exist.

You made me realize that this is actually a Traditional forum which I forgot.
I am not sure if relocation astrology with traditional planets is non-traditional.
If you can take Boris Johnson elsewhere, I will "relocate" my post there :-cry

PD
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