Hello,

Another newbie asking for help!
I?ve only recently discovered horary astrology and I?m trying now to assimilate the basics. As I?m about to buy a new laptop which I need urgently, the other one being about to die of old age, I decided to put my new knowledge to test. Without much success, I?m afraid. I?m not even sure I chose the correct houses? So I?d really appreciate if you could give me a hand in interpreting the chart.
I asked : ?should I buy this laptop or am I making a mistake (again)?? (computers are as mysterious as astrology to me).
Data: Aug. 22, 2005, 23h14 local time (21h14 Universal Time), 1:44W 43:22N

The chart is not radical (1st house: 1.57 Taurus), but since I have to buy the laptop by tomorrow, I wouldn?t say the question is premature?

I?m Venus in 6th, Libra. The 6th is the house of service, day to day labour, patience, suffering : me and my computer to a T . Venus is in domicile, strong, but in a cadent house, somewhat weakened = shows my indecision?

Vendor : I assumed it was the 7th house, therefore Mars in 1st Taurus, peregrine (not reliable?), in exile and in Venus domicile (weakened, depending on Venus? good will). The vendor needs me, well my money, and he wants it fast, Mars in the 1st also indicating fast action. How true! Mars also rules Aries, intercepted in 12th, an unfortunate house. Seeing the vendor as a secret enemy is maybe a bit farfetched, though those people can get pretty aggressive

I also chose a house for the laptop: I assumed 2nd, therefore Mercury in 5th, Leo, the house of items purchased for the purpose of pleasure and enjoyment. Well, I need a laptop for professional reasons, but it?s also a pleasure to buy a new one. I love those things, though sadly they don?t return my love, but that?s another story.
Mercury also rules the 6th. I think there is translation of light: Mercury separates from Mars by square (without reception) and applies to Venus by sextile (with reception, though not mutual). Mercury also applies by sextile to Jupiter, which rules the 8th, turned 2nd from 7th, and the 12th, turned 6th from 7th.
The square Merc/Mars might point to the, ah, squabbles, I had with the vendor.
I?d read the applying sextiles to Venus and Jupiter as a go-ahead (it?s not a fantastic deal, but it?s a good enough one), however, the part of fortune in 6th (cadent house) and in Trine to Mars might show that in fact, the one making a good deal is the vendor. In addition, the South Node conjunct Jupiter sounds like a big red light.

The Moon is applying to Mercury by Trine (without reception). Another translation of light here, through Mercury to Venus. The Moon is also conjunct to the North Node, though in 12th, weakening the effect. In addition it?s peregrine and in Mars domicile ? Under the thumb of the vendor - interestingly, the Moon is co-almuten of the 1st house with Venus. Its next aspect is an applying Trine to the Sun, in 5th, in Virgo. The Sun rules the 5th. I'm stumped, I really can't figure what the Sun represents here. Maybe the vendor, though it's a woman? That's something I have a problem with, understanding what the planets represent.
Except for the translation of light, there aren't any aspects between the main significators, Venus and Mars.

After this simplistic and probably totally wrong reading, my general impression is a ?No, don?t buy it?. The fact that the chart is not radical might indicate that indeed it?s a premature decision, even though I will be in real trouble if my old laptop dies on me

Of course, I do hope I?m wrong. I?d be really grateful if I could have your comments on this.
Thanks a million in advance!

KitKat

2nd house is your possessions... 8th house is other's possessions. You haven't bought it yet so it's still 8th house, not 2nd. So Jupiter is the laptop, not Mercury.

This should give the laptop as being Jupiter in Libra (it loves you!) but it has little essential dignity (in own term only).

The laptop (Jupiter) is not in detriment, so it's not damaged or in poor condition.

How about looking at the price of the laptop, to see if it's too high or if it's a good deal? I think this would be the 10th house but I'm not sure.

Keren

The chart is not radical (1st house: 1.57 Taurus), but since I have to buy the laptop by tomorrow, I wouldn?t say the question is premature?

I am curious as to why you would ask a question when you seem to have already made up your mind to buy the laptop immediately. I would say that the early ascendant is possibly warning that this purchase is premature but if you are not going to heed the advice of the chart then there is probably not much point in drawing up the chart in the first place. If you really do not have to buy the laptop immediately then it may be wise to wait. I have seen a lot of people draw up a chart hoping that it will confirm the decision they have already made. If it doesn't, they will often go against the advice of the chart and go with their decision anyway. This all seems a bit pointless to me.

kerenhappuch wrote:2nd house is your possessions... 8th house is other's possessions. You haven't bought it yet so it's still 8th house, not 2nd. So Jupiter is the laptop, not Mercury.

This should give the laptop as being Jupiter in Libra (it loves you!) but it has little essential dignity (in own term only).

The laptop (Jupiter) is not in detriment, so it's not damaged or in poor condition.

How about looking at the price of the laptop, to see if it's too high or if it's a good deal? I think this would be the 10th house but I'm not sure.

Keren

Thanks for your comments, and of course, you are right. I hadn't seen it this way.
As for the price, wouldn't it be the 2nd house? As a matter of fact, that's why I chose it for the laptop. I was thinking in terms of money and value. And then, Mercury seemed so adequate for a laptop that I didn't think twice

Sue wrote:I am curious as to why you would ask a question when you seem to have already made up your mind to buy the laptop immediately. I would say that the early ascendant is possibly warning that this purchase is premature .... they will often go against the advice of the chart and go with their decision anyway. This all seems a bit pointless to me.

I will heed the advice of the chart and I have delayed the purchase. After all, I have bought several computers after reading millions of articles and following the advice of technicians, computer whizz, etc., and I have always had problems with my machines. Therefore, this time, I?ll try the advice of the horary, maybe THAT will work.
As for still trying to decrypt the chart in spite of the early ascendant: I?ve already delayed the purchase several times, though it?s really necessary for my work, and then I spent one week comparing meticulously the different offers. After that, seeing the warning ?premature? sounded like a bad joke, you know.
Anyway, I'll go on looking and I'll draw another chart for my next choice
Of course, if someone can advise me on a really good, powerful and unexpensive laptop, I'm interested too !!!

A last word on this question: The chart was right to send a "premature" warning. I found today the same equipment for 300 euros less.
Keren, you were also right when you judged the laptop in good condition, but advised to look at what the chart had to say about the price: evidently, that's where the problem was.
I've tried to draw a chart for this new "promotion", but as soon as I saw Saturn in the 7th, I closed the program. Now I know the value of the "strictures against judgment"

KitKat

Hi KitKat,

I?m pleased everything worked out and you were able to get a better deal.

Now I know the value of the "strictures against judgment"

This may sound as though I am playing semantics but ?considerations before judgement? would be the more accurate term. Granted, many astrologers use strictures and I have seen it in books. I think Barbara Watters is one. In fact, I?m pretty sure she was the first. But strictures suggest that the chart cannot be read at all. Considerations is suggesting that we take particular note of the chart and whatever consideration is applicable and take it under advisement. Sometimes you can go ahead and you will more than likely end up with an answer that the consideration had warned you about. I find that often the consideration will give you a sufficient answer anyway. VOC Moon can suggest that the matter being asked about will not proceed satisfactorily. Ignoring the consideration and reading the chart will quite possibly end up giving you the same answer that the consideration did. An early ascendant in your chart meant the planned action was premature. Delineating the chart may well have given the same advice. A late ascendant, as Deb pointed out in another thread, could mean information that was missing or that it is too late to ask about this matter. I've also seen a lot of charts lately where the querent already knows the answer or has made the decision but wants to confirm it using horary. Many times this has provided a chart with a late ascendant. I can?t imagine that any astrologer would have seen the early ascendant or late ascendant and then gone no further without thinking about what it meant. They would have analysed what the consideration was warning against. The answer to the chart may be in the consideration itself.

Tom said in another thread:

John gave a talk a few years back and used an example (I'm doing it again) where virtually all the major considerations were there, and so was the answer. All charts are "radical" is the point.

Obviously it is impossible to have a chart where they are all present. But I?ll bet that even though most of them were there John came up with the same answer that the considerations were giving him before he even started delineating the chart. But I don?t think Lilly ever said that a chart with considerations could not be judged. He usually said that it is not safe to judge. Big difference. Many of the considerations involve things such as the client not being entirely honest or withholding information as Deb discovered in her example of the late ascendant. She was able to read the chart but it was based on a false premise. This sort of dishonesty is often what Bonatti warns against in his considerations and one of the reasons considerations were developed in the first place.

Tom said in another thread:

John gave a talk a few years back and used an example (I'm doing it again) where virtually all the major considerations were there, and so was the answer. All charts are "radical" is the point.

Obviously it is impossible to have a chart where they are all present. But I?ll bet that even though most of them were there John came up with the same answer that the considerations were giving him before he even started delineating the chart. But I don?t think Lilly ever said that a chart with considerations could not be judged. He usually said that it is not safe to judge. Big difference.

I think you've nailed it Sue. And I think, as you noted, that the use of the word "strictures" causes problems. Considerations are just that: things to take into consideration. Early degrees rising? Perhaps the question or action is premature. This does not mean the chart cannot be read; it means the astrologer has to be careful. I recall a few occasions where I made a hasty judgment with Saturn in the 7th (the 7th is the house of the astrologer, but it is rarely used that way). There was a little thing or two I'd missed. Maybe it was a translation of light or a prohibition. It didn't matter. Saturn in the 7th was saying "slow down:" I didn't. The chart, though was perfectly good. The astrologer was his usual less than perfect self.

John gve a talk to the Company of Astrologers in London on Lilly Day in I think 1996. His talk concerned the considerations and of course there were examples. One in particular had several of the considerations present. There is another chart he did somewhere, I can't find it, regarding an elderly woman's loss of an old and valuable shawl. In both he demonstrates that the considerations were part of the story that the chart was revealing. They are most definitely not strictures against judgment.

He wrote about his talk in the Astrologer's Apprentice No 6. I'm going to give the chart data, question, and point out the considerations, but time isn't going to allow me to repeat all that John said about this.

Feb 26, 1997
7:46 PM GMT
London
2 Libra rises.

The question was asked by a widow who was seeing a widower. Both had recently lost their spouses. The woman was concerned about the propriety of the situation and asked: Should I continue this relationship?

We have early degrees rising, Saturn in detriment is in the 7th, the Moon is in the via combusta, Venus is about to enter combustion, there may be more. Yet, as John demonstrates each of these considerations relates to the question, so the chart is "radical" and can be read.

The early degree rising indicates it is a new relationship, Venus, the woman as feminine being, is "about to jump into the relationship and will do so the sign of her exaltation. The Sun is quesited as masculine being. She is going to him. The Moon in the via combusta indicates worry or turmoil. It is in the 2nd house. She is worried that she will be seen as a gold digger. Her new love interest is quite wealthy. So all the considerations have a role to play in the chart. They are warning signs, not prohibitions.

Tom

Interesting comments above re considerations before judgement, VOC moon, late ascendant etc.

Further to that: I have a confession. Today I asked a question (my own question) which, perversely, secretly, I knew I should not be asking, and was really an abuse of horary. And along with that, I also had a lack of genuine interest in the answer(it was not a NEED to know-type question).

Guess what? I got 29.5 degrees of a sign rising, AND a VOC moon at 28 degrees....

Today I asked a question (my own question) which, perversely, secretly, I knew I should not be asking, and was really an abuse of horary.

You evil person, kurgal. There's probably a special section of hell put aside for people like you. Which means we'd all be there because I can pretty well guarantee that most of us have been guilty of that at one time or another. But it is interesting isn't it? I would be interested to hear from long term horary astrologers whether a lot of the considerations play out in actuality. So, for example, does a late ascendant often mean things such as missing information or too late to use the info etc.?