http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wulff1.html

Hi
Interesting book.
It seems astrologers in the 1920s were doing quite well and Wullf was one of them. See the techniques he used.
He talks about planets in water Navamsas in this particular chapter,indicating the death of this girl along with their position in 8th house, as well as "saturn in 8 indicates the person will be the cause of herown death".I suppose he meant "Saturn as ruler of Ascendant?
Any idea of which partuclar methods he was using, given that he appeared to be using Vedic applied to tropical astrology?
This part legt me a bit confused;
"If, in this horoscope, we look at the subdivision of the zodiac as postulated in Indian astrology, we find the moon, Saturn, and Mars in watery Navamsas (i.e., a one-ninth or forty-degree sector of the zodiac) and Dvadas?msas (one twelfth or thirty-degree sector). And that means a watery grave - in this case suicide by drowning"

thanks

Hi,

Yes, I think that he said the Saturn in 8th thing because Saturn rules the first: 'person is responsible for her own death". In this case by drowning and it is really interesting how did he used Navamsa and Dwadasamsas (Dodekatemoria or Twelfth Part) placement of those planets in 8th in order to indicate the nature of death.

The dodecatemoria of Mars and Saturn falls in 7th in Cancer, which further more reveals the occasion of death by drowning (water) with her partner (7th). Moon is also ruler of 7th in 8th, and Saturn is ruler of 1st and 2nd in 8th, which shows that her death and death of her partner are related.
But this is my interpretation. I don't know why he did used Mars in this configuration, probably because it is in 2nd, and this is 8th from 7th = partner's death.

Wilhelm Wulff is really interesting read.

BTW he is not first to use "Vedic techniques" into tropical analysis, or western approach. Abu Ma'shar used Navamsas and Dwadasamsas. Dwadasamsas or Dodecatemorias were used by Hellenistic Astrologers too.

Morinus (western traditional) free software has option to calculate the twelfth parts (Dodecatemoria). They are shown in the outer side of the wheel:

Good evening,

Here is the AstroWiki article on Herr Wilhelm Wulff (German):

http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/de/Wilhelm_Wulff

It contains lists of books and articles he published that make his preference for Indian astrology clear. Here is a scan of his 'Scheme of the Indian Zodiac' from his translation of the Brihat Jataka:
As for example the fixed star Aldebaran is at about 8 degrees of Gemini, it is clearly a tropical scheme.

Here is Wilhelm Wulff's horoscope from AstroWiki:
Here is a 'Mediaeval' presentation and a table of essential honours / debilities (Chaldean confines):
Best regards,

lihin

Ile wrote:Hi,

Yes, I think that he said the Saturn in 8th thing because Saturn rules the first: 'person is responsible for her own death". In this case by drowning and it is really interesting how did he used Navamsa and Dwadasamsas (Dodekatemoria or Twelfth Part) placement of those planets in 8th in order to indicate the nature of death.

The dodecatemoria of Mars and Saturn falls in 7th in Cancer, which further more reveals the occasion of death by drowning (water) with her partner (7th). Moon is also ruler of 7th in 8th, and Saturn is ruler of 1st and 2nd in 8th, which shows that her death and death of her partner are related.
But this is my interpretation. I don't know why he did used Mars in this configuration, probably because it is in 2nd, and this is 8th from 7th = partner's death.

Wilhelm Wulff is really interesting read.

BTW he is not first to use "Vedic techniques" into tropical analysis, or western approach. Abu Ma'shar used Navamsas and Dwadasamsas. Dwadasamsas or Dodecatemorias were used by Hellenistic Astrologers too.

Morinus (western traditional) free software has option to calculate the twelfth parts (Dodecatemoria). They are shown in the outer side of the wheel:

I canmt find the twelth parts,and my Morinus seems to be different from yours at least the appearance of the chart.Which version are you referring to?

thanks

damon wrote: I can't find the twelfth parts,and my Morinus seems to be different from yours at least the appearance of the chart.Which version are you referring to?
thanks

Try this. Open your Morinus software > go to Options > click Appearance I > check the Dodecatemoria on the bottom left of the screen.
You should now have them in your main screen wheel.

Ile wrote:

damon wrote: I can't find the twelfth parts,and my Morinus seems to be different from yours at least the appearance of the chart.Which version are you referring to? thanks

Try this. Open your Morinus software > go to Options > click Appearance I > check the Dodecatemoria on the bottom left of the screen. You should now have them in your main screen wheel.

What I see in the bottom left side is "show traditional names of fixed stars in PD lists". I clicked but dont see any planets in outer wheel

You should have the following table in Appearance I: If you don't have this kind of table, either you have the modern variant of Morinus software, or you have some very old version of the traditional software.

Ile wrote:You should have the following table in Appearance I:

If you don't have this kind of table, either you have the modern variant of Morinus software, or you have some very old version of the traditional software.

Nope. Ill try a different download

damon wrote:
Nope. Ill try a different download

https://sites.google.com/site/tradmorinus/morinus
Download the file on the bottom of this page.

I think Robert Schmidt said somewhere that Dodecatemorias are outward manifestation of the planets (I'm not quite sure if these were his exact words), which in this case is quite on the spot, with the dodecatemorias of Saturn (native's death) and Mars (partner's death) shows the final manifestation of their death in water (both dodecatmorias in watery sign).

Ile wrote:I think Robert Schmidt said somewhere that Dodecatemorias are outward manifestation of the planets (I'm not quite sure if these were his exact words), which in this case is quite on the spot, with the dodecatemorias of Saturn (native's death) and Mars (partner's death) shows the final manifestation of their death in water (both dodecatmorias in watery sign).

I am having problems opening the new version. Have to check later.
Anyway maybe you could have a look at Barack Obamas chart.He jhas Mars in 8th house in Virgo. It would be interesting to know where his Mars Dodecatmorias fall?
thanks

Ile wrote:

BTW he is not first to use "Vedic techniques" into tropical analysis, or western approach. Abu Ma'shar used Navamsas and Dwadasamsas.

Yes but what zodiac is Abu Ma'shar using? Tropical or sidereal Sassanian zodiac?

Mark