POF is not the AC but the AC is part of computing the POF. That is clear enough. But if you read Manilius, you will see that for him the POF, as the beginning of the "sortes", and these are obviously more important for the native than the AC and the 12 houses. It is just this third circle (1. zodiac, 2. houses 3. sortes) which - after Manilius or better: my understanding of his writings - is the most personal and thus most appropriate for the native.

These circle of sortes obviously seem to be of much more importance than crosses of the POF - at least for Manilius.

Johannes

I agree with Tom that it is much too sweeping to say that Fortune as a derived Asc was MORE important than the Asc itself.

Both Vettius Valens and Manilius emphasize the role of Fortune as an alternate Asc. I agree with those who find Manilius problematical. At one time, Hand stated that he believed it to be a forgery, though he has now retracted that statement on the grounds that Manilius seems to have been known throughout the Middle Ages, i.e. earlier than the one Renaissance ms. we now possess. Still, Manilius doesn't sound like anyone else and he doesn't give "working examples" drawn from real horoscopes.

It is Valens who gives us our clearest view, in a series of mini-readings, as to how Fortune ought to be used as an alternate Asc. It is true that he really does place great value on this technique, but I think it is much too broad to say that he regarded it as "the" way to do things. It was one of countless techniques that he mentioned in his voluminous work, and it was one that he obviously liked, but the bulk of his writing focuses more on the actual Asc -- at least in my opinion.

I say this even though I am a huge fan of the "Fortune as Asc" technique. In my new feature article for the Feb-Mar TMA (shameless plug, I know), I will address the topic in some detail.

All things considered, I think we ought to regard the POF/Asc technique as an extremely valuable asset to chart reading, but I don't think it replaces the actual Asc by any stretch of the imagination.