Okay, I think I need to turn to the wealth of knowledge and feedback in the community on this one. Subject is born: May 2, 1974, 1:50pm est, Mishawaka, Indiana, USA.

I warned her several years ago regarding Transiting Saturn through her 2nd house of income, true to form, it was devastating. I also predicted change in Career, she once had a successful career for many years in the travel industry, then with the change in Progressed MC to Cancer, conjunct Progressed and Natal Saturn in the Progressed 10th house.

I have just found out she had a heart attack at 37, and has been having thoughts about her dying. She was born with an extra electrical element in her heart, with heart palpitation.

Now as I look at her progressed chart, standing alone, Saturn is at her Progressed MC (easy to predict she would have terrible bosses at work, yes its true.) What concerns me is Progressed Saturn is squaring Progressed Pluto on her Progressed Asc. Venus the ruler of her Progressed Asc is in the 8th house and dignified in Taurus. Do any of you see Death of subject or her Mother?

I believe the subject should be fine, as the Progressed Moon is Trining her Progressed Sun. There is a mutual reception from the Prog. Moon to Progressed Saturn on the MC. I would not have focused my attention on the death aspect until I recently found out, now I am wondering if I missed the mark on this.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much

So here are the charts, (I hope they show up) I have many predictions for this native. For the last 2-3 years all focused on Finances, Saturn was transiting her second house of income, I warned about this, and sure enough it was devastating. In addition the Progressed MC had moved to conjunct Progressed Saturn, with wide conjunction of Mars both in Cancer, 10th house of career. So big change in her career, I warned her, would not be pleasant, lots of work, possibly from home, restrictions. All very true she just let me know. She had major financial devastation, in addition with Prog. MC on Prog. Saturn in 10th, fall from grace as in public foreclosure, etc. She tells she feels chained to her home now that she is working from home (of Course Prog.MC on Prog. Saturn in Cancer.

HOWEVER, the biggest thing I missed, see if any of you get this. I was so focused on her career and finances as it was a huge terribly stressbul with huge changes, that I MISSED THE DEATH connection that I just found out about.

She recently told me she had a heart attack a couple years ago, due to massive financial stress (she has an extra electrical circuit in her heart), and that she was obsessing about dying. I TOTALLY missed this being asked and so focused on her finances/career.

In my opinion, the square from Progressed Saturn on the Prog. MC to Prog. Pluto had caused this obsession with dying and thinking she is going to die. In the Tri-Wheel chart, the Prog. Moon is Trining her Prog. Sun in the 9th. However, if you use the stand alone Progressed chart by itself, Venus in Taurus in the 8th house of death, ruled by Mars, which was in last degrees in Cancer, caused this. Prog. Mars has just moved to Leo from Cancer.

So just to make sure I am not missing anything else, I have never gotten into the span of life in Astrology or death. Does anyone have alot of experience in this, and can let me know what they think? Is there a death here of native or her mother, aunt?

Thanks so much!

hi morning sun,

i like working with whole sign houses. this is actually an old approach that puts the signs on the houses based off the degree and sign on the ascendant. in the chart you provide for the women from indiana, aries is on the 8th house cusp and is in a conjunction with saturn in the sign cancer which adds up to a challenging dynamic with family, male figures and more generally around the types of issues you are raising in your question on the forum..

i think it is foolish to rely on only sec progs to come to any conclusion on a chart.. you need to have more then one symbolic method to suggest a possibility of something definite happening in a persons life.. in this case though, the sec progs are backed up to an extent by the transits.. that mars/saturn conj square onto pluto with angles in the sec progs is emphasized natally given the square already) and at present with the transiting uranus/pluto, along with t mars this moment which is opposite her natal mars.. the present transiting mars/pluto conjunction while emphasize the natal square between these 2 in her chart.. natally it suggests conflicts of a sexual nature within her family from an early age and more generally an intense approach towards life based on past experiences of a difficult and intensely painful nature.
the solar arc directions have sa pluto exactly opposite her sun at this time as well, so issues around death which to me are a pluto theme are really emphasized in this chart you offer.. i am not sure what type of guidance you can offer this person, but i would be doing so to the best of your ability as the dynamics astrologically from my pov look very challenging... good luck trying to help her out.

james

Hello James,

So sorry to give the impression I only rely on Secondary Progression, I just assumed no-one would even think that someone would do that.

I just keep getting interrupted in the middle of postings and replies, so I am trying to hurry to get it all out. I always use the Tri-Wheel. This is a long time client, who contacts me about once a year. Last several years as is obvious by her chart, heavy money, financial, and enormous career changes.

This recent contact took me by surprise, the previous contacts all regarding finances and career. I feel terrible I did not catch the death theme. I was very surprised to find out she had a heart attack or what the doctors thought was a heart attack due to the extra electrical circuit in her heart, which put her in a spin of thinking about herself dying.

So I pulled up the Progressed Chart by itself, there it was Progressed Pluto squaring Progressed Saturn right on the Progressed MC. That was the Death theme I missed.

However, the Progressed Moon in the stand alone Progressed Chart is trining her Progressed Sun, and the Moon and Saturn are in Mutual Reception. The Moon in the TriWheel overlaying her natal chart is actually in her 6th house of Health ruled Traditionally by Saturn, or Modern by Uranus (extra electrical impluse in Heart),. With the Mutual Reception, which they can work together to bring about health problems.

Venus in the Natal Chart is well placed in Exultation at 27 degrees Pisces in her Natal Chart, with Jupiter dignified in Pisces as Lord of 7th and 8th, (natal) providing protection and support. However, currently, Progressed Venus, also dignified in Taurus, is also being squared by the Moon,(which in her Natal is in 6th hse of health ruled by Saturn,) but Prog. Venus is in the 8th house, with the above square and sextile from Mercury, which I think is just making the thoughts of death pour in more easily. So Progressed Venus, dignified in the 8th house, and Mars ruler of the Prog. 8th house has now become very strong in Leo. Prog. Venus in the stand alone Prog. Chart Ascendant, 1st and 2nd house ruler. 1st house of physical constitution.

In addition, Uranus in Aries in the Transit Chart in the 8th house of death, squaring (applying) a very strong Prog Mars in Leo and Prog. in 10th hse.

I have never focused on death in a chart, and have stayed away from the years of Life, etc, but that may not have been a good idea.

It is these above aspects that have me concerned and which I ask for others opinion and knowledge.
Thanks so much!

Good morning,

Would analyses of this case from Hellenistic and Mediaeval astrological perspectives be deemed nuisances in this thread, given that Mr MorningSun applies modern techniques?

Best regards,

lihin

Hello Lihin,

Yes, I like the modern techniques, I live in the 21st century, however, All of the techniques and Astrologers leading up to today, are a wealth of knowledge and insight. I have read a great deal of them, and respect all of them. It adds yet another layer, dimension. I do however, have difficulty getting beyond the medieval terminology, I think it is silly to say "Lord" instead of ruler, I like the term elements instead of triplicities, etc. Feudalism was brutal.

All of the techniques work!! In the chart I posted, as said, I was asked about finances and career, those were the questions asked, I do feel bad that I did not pick up on the death issue. I have predicted all of the events that happened in her life. I gave her ample warning years before. Isn't it funny how even with ample warning the events (financial devastation and difficulties in career) occurred anyway? I still find it amazing. I do combine techniques, but mostly modern I predicted for her many years. Exact date her old house would sell, her marriage, negotiation outcomes, travel, etc over the years, exact day for her to get money coming in, etc. As mentioned above, I missed the death issue. In my recent discussion with her that came up and surprised me, it was mentioned just in the flow of conversation, she does not want to know about it, I would like more perspective on it.

Perhaps I should have posted in the General Section, Modern Astrologers seem a bit more willing to share their knowledge and experience, a little more open. I have read Medieval or Hellenistic techniques, I have not studied them to the degree that most have on this site, due to lack of time and regular life. And Modern techniques do work up to a point, then its time to use more tools and techniques to unwrap more layers.

Hello James,

Your assessment is off base here, In your reply you state:

" the present transiting mars/pluto conjunction while emphasize the natal square between these 2 in her chart.. natally it suggests conflicts of a sexual nature within her family from an early age and more generally an intense approach towards life based on past experiences of a difficult and intensely painful nature. "

None of that, she was raised by a single Mom who did not date, and pretty much had a normal childhood, their were times when she felt they did not have enough money.

thanks for the feedback morning sun!

i think you are correct in thinking of posting in the general section next time!

Just to note I use Lahiri Ayanamsa. Briefly since you have not given more precise dates or anything. Her decennial lords for this time (if I'm right in thinking this event stems from May 2011 - May 2012) are Mars/Mercury (maybe Venus if it happened early in her year). Mars afflicts the Moon as the out-of-sect malefic in a bit of a poor state, so we can assume some sort of health problems initially which would need to be confirmed with more precise techniques.

The profection falls in Virgo containing said Moon and activating the Mars square. Mercury rules the year as lord of Virgo, he is combust in the natal 9th. From this we can see that health will not be great. We have Saturn transiting the profected ASC sign Virgo at the time of the revolution which only adds to that testimony (doubly so since he is the natal 6th lord). Mercury as lord of the year is in the natal 8th at the time of the revolution and is in debility conjoined Mars. This again is not good for her health and neither is the revolution ASC being in the natal 6th house. Another is the profected ASC being in the revolution 8th house with Saturn. One saving grace is that Mercury is with both benefics who are strongly dignified. Another is that exalted Venus is in a stake of the Moon and is overcoming that natal Mars thus protecting both.

Of course, if her heart attack happened in a different year, all of that will be wrong. Next time maybe give bigger charts and more details and I can look a little more seriously.

Cheers.

Good evening,

I concur that this thread would be better placed in another section of the forum, as this section is entitled 'Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques'.

Best regards,

lihin

Thank you Konrad,

I was looking for that confirmation of protection, which I also stated in my previous thread. I have been trying to upload a better image of the charts but the "tinypics" is not working properly right now.

This is interesting that regardless of which method used, it gives the same answer of protection.

For a modern take it is very clear that Transiting Uranus in Aries, 8th hse (sign of self and general constitution of health) is ACTIVATING the natal Moon/Pluto conjunction as well as the Progressed Ascendant/Pluto conjunction both, aspecting Progressed Mars which was in Cancer, and ruler Moon in 6th house of health, Modern ruler Uranus, Activating all from teh 8th house of death. It is a very interesting play of planets and energy, turned to real life events.

Transiting Uranus is also activating (squaring) the Natal Saturn/Mars in Cancer conjunction as well as the exact square to the Progressed MC/Saturn conjunction. then if you use the Traditional rulers, Prog. Saturn is the ruler of her 6th house of health also squaring her natal moon/pluto conjunction, and Prog. Asc/Pluto conjunction with Progressed Moon currently in the 6th house of health, Pluto being the modern ruler of 8th hosue of death, has been activated.

Regarding Mars in Cancer, I have found and I have not seen it written anywhere, that Mars in Cancer seems to be impotent, incompetent, I do not find too many malefic events with that placement. Minor troubles, not strong enough to do much damage. I am not so sure of Saturn in Cancer. In this case Saturn's debility can be offset by it being accidentally dignified by being in the 10th house right on the Progressed MC, angular which has made it stronger and more noticeable in the Native's life at this present time. I believe it being the 10th Saturn here I believe can be a significator for her mother, as well as currently causing much trouble in her career, very strongly so in real life, as well as it being strong and angular in the chart. Up until the Progressed MC moved to this Saturn in Cancer, it was not any trouble at all in the native's life, it has now become active and alive at this point in time. Very interesting. Real Life events from the chart's configurations.

I forgot the Mercury connection you mentioned. I have never been convinced of combustion in the Natal Chart. What we know now and what they knew then is hugely different. There are millions and millions of people then with combustion in their natal charts. i have looked to see if I can find real life examples of combustion in the Natal Charts as to how it affect the native. Not so much is what I find. I can see a point of using it for an event chart, horary and the such. But I have not found any correlation to date of Mercury or Venus combust causing weakness at all in a Nativity. Just my real life observations

MorningSun wrote:I forgot the Mercury connection you mentioned. I have never been convinced of combustion in the Natal Chart. What we know now and what they knew then is hugely different. There are millions and millions of people then with combustion in their natal charts. i have looked to see if I can find real life examples of combustion in the Natal Charts as to how it affect the native. Not so much is what I find. I can see a point of using it for an event chart, horary and the such. But I have not found any correlation to date of Mercury or Venus combust causing weakness at all in a Nativity. Just my real life observations

I'm not sure what difference our perceived gain of knowledge now as opposed to way back when makes to the concept of combustion but for what it's worth, I'd think its effects, or lack of, would be dependant on the dispositor of the combust planet and whether the combust planet is received by one of its rulers or a well-placed benefic.

MorningSun wrote:Regarding Mars in Cancer, I have found and I have not seen it written anywhere, that Mars in Cancer seems to be impotent, incompetent, I do not find too many malefic events with that placement. Minor troubles, not strong enough to do much damage.

Well from my point of view, this Mars would, unless in the later degrees, be in Gemini. As for this particular combination (Mars in overcoming square to the Moon) I have seen a few charts where this brings bodily harm to the native when the finer predictive techniques confirm the broader ones. I actually have it myself and have suffered hospitalisations after being attacked and after breaking my foot playing sports in successive years when Mars ruled the bounds of the primary directed Moon and while Mars also afflicted the Moon or the ASC in the revolution. In my case, Mars received the Moon and was under the earth in the day-time which lessened his harm considerably. Your client does not have the same fortune despite the beneficial effects of Venus.


May I have the time (even to the month) of the heart attack if you have it? I would like to further examine the triggers for this event.

Cheers.