Could anyone please help me to interpret this horary?

On 29th August, it was reported in the local newspaper that a 19 year old man, had been discovered drowned on the beach. The newspaper reported that he had set out the night before at midnight from the hotel he had been staying at with his family, to go out alone for a late night drink. He never returned. When his body was discovered the next morning just after 8 am, police stated that none of his personal possesions had gone missing such as his wallet and mobile phone. He only had slight injuries which were consistent with having been in the sea, and it seems he had not been in the water for long. It was not considered probable that he could have committed suicide.

Somehow I wondered if he had been in an unfortunate accident or whether there is some element of foul play involved. Although he had no missing items, and it did not appear he had been attacked, how could he have come to have drowned in the sea? Perhaps he was drunk, fell over the sea wall and got pulled under by the current? Yet somehow, I feel that he must have had contact with others that night, if he was going out for a drink, perhaps he met someone? There is just an element of mystery about this.

I erected a horary for the moment I had finished reading the newspaper article:

'What were the circumstances surrounding his death?'
12:46, 29th August, 2005, St. Annes-3w02/53n45, England.

Looking at the chart, Scorpio rises at 11 degrees, so the debilitated Mars is significator. He operates in an environment which does not suit his needs. Mars is in a past quincunx to Venus, who rules the 7th cusp and the sign in which Mars is placed. So I feel that there is a connection here to someone else, but Venus is exactly conjuct the South Node, which perhaps makes this person malicious, wicked and cruel. The 11th house placement of Venus suggests a social setting. Venus operates in an environment which suits its needs, Mars does not, but is 'influenced' by Venus whose sign he is in, but Venus is conjuct the South Node, making this individual an evil influence. Venus and Mars are both in 'non beholding' signs, seeming to suggest a difference and irreconcilability between them, so then why the inevitable connection, as shown by the chart? I somehow feel he had been misled or lured in some way. Venuses conjunction with Jupiter blesses Venus with good fortune, and as Venus quincunxes Mars, and so distances itself from him, it seems that if someone else is involved with this death they are optimistic they will not be caught. Perhaps they know something but for some reason they are reluctant to come forward? The Venus and Jupiter conjuction appears benevolent at first hand, but considering the Venus/SN connection and that Jupiter rules the 2nd, which contains Pluto R. then both have deadly implications. Perhaps Venus and Jupiter are two people?

What immediately strikes me on this chart it that the IC, the place of the 'grave' and the 'end of the matter', is upon the dying, 'anaretic' (29th)degree of Aquarius, a Saturn (death) ruled sign. Thus by angle, and the terminal degree of a Saturn ruled sign there are three symbols of death all together. This makes me feel that it is the fourth cusp I should look to for his 'death'. It's ruler is Saturn which rules over the cusps of the 3rd and 4th houses, so the base of the chart is Saturn dominated, and the theme of death is evident.

Saturn is in Leo in the 9th, it is in its sign of detriment and in Saturn's term and Saturn's face so even deadlier still. It lacks any major aspects. It would seem the chain of leads from the IC are hopelessly fatal. (IC=29th=Saturn ruled=Saturn in detriment=Saturn's term=Saturn's face)What does being in the 9th say about his death? It is a cadent house, so Saturn in detriment is really bad. I honestly am lost on this one. How might the 9th show circumstances of death? His 8th cusp is ruled by Mercury which is also in the 9th. Both are in the Sun's sign, and the Sun is in the 10th, perhaps showing how his death was to become a matter of question for the authorities. One of the only minor aspects to Saturn is a future semi-sextile to the Sun, showing how his death was to be brought to light to the public.

The Moon is powerful in Cancer, and in the 8th house of death. It is in Jupiter's term and Venus' face, again implicating the involvement of the two 'benefics' with deadly associations (SN, PlutoR/2nd). The Moon forms a future square to Jupiter, when it will have moved from the 8th to the 9th, perhaps highlighting a time of the magnification of legal enquiries, perhaps if Jupiter represents a person, they will be questioned by the law? The next aspect is a semi-sextile to Mercury in the 9th, showing perhaps a subsequent legal inquiry into the death? If we are to stretch to outer planets, then the last aspect is to Pluto R in the 2nd, over which Jupiter rules.

It is known that the last time he was seen was at: midnight 26/27th August, 2005, Blackpool - 3w03/53n50, England.

I was wondering if this event chart of the last time he was seen could give us any clues as to what happened to him, if it was interpreted as a horary.

In the chart for the time he was last seen, the IC, place of the 'grave'
and 'end' stands out as being significant again. Gemini rises at 23 degrees, so he is signified by Mercury when he set off out that night. Mercury is right upon the IC, only just past by a whisker, so it seems when he set out his 'fate' was somehow sealed. Mercury's only future aspect is a trine to PlutoR, which is conjunct the descendant which not only shows deadly associations with others, but the Desc, is where the Sun sets, the light is extinguished and 'passes out of being'. His only possible future when he set out was death. I wonder had he planned to meet someone? What had they planned?

I am still a bit confused as to whether I should be examining the 8th or the 4th for his 'death', but as I keep being led to the 4th, and this is the place of endings, this is where I am prompted to look. Mercury rules the 5th cusp, so he went out seeking pleasure, but more importantly, the 5th contains Jupiter and Venus so he sought pleasure among the company of those already discussed in the previous horary. In this chart, the South Node is right in between Venus and Jupiter. That malefic influence binds these outwardly benevolent forces. Wondering whether he was going out to meet anyone, I look to the 7th cusp, ruled by jupiter, one of the pair already mentioned. I feel that he was. It is intersting that Mercurys last aspect is to PlutoR, which was in the 2nd in the last reading, the cusp of which was ruled by Jupiter. Which leaves me thinking that whoever Jupiter is, they wanted something back off Mercury, perhaps he had something of theirs? Mercury is in venus' term, so was he enticed by Jupiters attractive accomplice?

The Moon in the 'time last seen' chart is in Gemini, so Mercury rules over the Moon which is peregrine. The Moon rules the 2nd, what am I to make of this? The Moon comes into future sextile with Mercury and Mars at about the same time, but to Mars a little earlier than Mercury, and so (if I am right) this means that Mars is translated to Mercury hence Mercury suffers, is victimised, and as Mars is in the 12th this is hidden, undercover. Yet a trine to Venus occurs before this. A trine to Jupiter after. So Venus sets this influence in motion and Jupiter somehow consolidates after. Again, if stretching to Outers, Pluto R is the last aspect, conjunct the DC, the 'passing out of being'.

The data for the time the body was found is as follows: (just after 8am) 8:05, 27 August, 2005, Bispham - 3w02/53n11, England.

This time I am unsure as to whether I should use the 1st house cusp as significator of the deceased. As the significator is no longer living, are they still the first cusp? I thought perhaps the 4th, the 'end of matter' and the 'grave'.

Again the IC is emphasised by a conjunction with Pluto R, where Mercury, significator of the 'time last seen' chart was conjunct and where the anaretic degree of a Saturnian sign occured in the original horary.

The Moon last aspect is to Jupiter, now in a seperate house to Venus, as though they have grown apart since the discovery of the body. If we consider the outers, the ultimate last aspect is again Pluto R, in opposition.

I seem to have picked up a theme in these charts, and I feel that there are others who know something about this death. I am not trying to imply that anything such as a murder occured. Perhaps it was just that he was thrown in the sea, and the person didn't realise the consequences of their actions. It just seems there are others associated but I'm unsure of how to weave all this together.

I would appreciate it if any of you would like to have a look at the horary and event charts and offer your ideas. Some of the technicalities I haven't got the hang of, and maybe you can see some interesting things which I have missed. What do you think these charts are telling us about the circumstances that surrounded his death?

I'd like to figure this one out.

Thankyou for helping,

Regards,
Draco.

I don?t see the emphasis on the 4th house like you did. I don?t place any special value on the 4th house cusp being late in degrees. (See my other post on the mislabeled Anareta.) Saturn is debilitated, but it does have dignity by term and face, and this helps it ever so slightly. It doesn?t make it a benefic but it doesn?t make it worse either. I also don?t use semi-sextile aspects because they are not traditional.

The Moon is in the 8th house, which does show his death, but the fact that it disposits Jupiter by exaltation and term and Venus by face does not link them in any meaningful way. You need an aspect to connect two planets, not just reception. Without an aspect there is no event. The Moon is in it?s own sign, so it?s in control of its own destiny.

Venus rules the 7th house. Lilly says that a debilitated 7th house ruler shows a thief, and by analogy, will show any sort of criminal. Venus is strong in her sign, so I think that would eliminate the possibility of the man?s death being as a result of the bad actions of a known enemy.

The best course to find out the circumstances of his death would be to look at the past aspects. The Moon has just entered its sign and so has no past aspects. The man?s significator?s has just separated from a square with Neptune, so he?s had trouble with confusion. Mars also has split from a square with Mercury, the ruler of the 8th house, so that shows his death. The fact that there is no contact between any other significators pretty much rules out foul play.

I have a theory, but it?s just a theory. This still could be a careless accident. He?s in the 7th house, the house that would show a girlfriend if he has one. Where is she? She is the dominant position, with another person, shown my Jupiter. There is no contact by aspect between them. Perhaps he was despondent over the loss of his girlfriend and killed himself. This is just a guess. I don?t know what the other indicators of suicide might be. Might the Moon being in it?s own sign, in control of itself, and in the house of death, might this be a sign of suicide, that he controlled his own death? Honestly, I have never seen suicide in a chart, so that is a pure guess on my part.

I also note that Mercury, his death, is separating from an opposition with Neptune, which points to death by confusion. But this could be confusion over a bad romantic affair, or just being drunk. It?s not clear.

I didn?t have time to look at the other charts.

Hi Draco,

I haven't had a chance to look at any charts yet but the 4th house is usually significant in cases of death by drowning.

Cheers
Sue

Thankyou Tom and Sue for commenting,

Tom,

I only saw emphasis in the 4th cusp because it just seemed to stand out.
I also feel that there is some romantic involvement such as a girlfriend (Venus) and I also think that she was already with another (Jupiter), although I had not thought suicide, as he was not known to have been depressed and this would be uncharacterisic. I can though see how you come to this conclusion and this is an interesting theory. It is suggested in the 'time last seen' chart that he was going out with the intention of meeting someone, or perhaps with someone particular in mind.

Sue,

Thankyou for informing me that the 4th cusp is the appropriate place to look for death by drowning. No wonder I was drawn to this cusp. It struck me as significant, when in the horary the 29th (and therefore terminal degree) of a Saturn (death) ruled sign was conjunct the IC (the grave; end of matter). All these symbols seemed to imply death, and now I know they stood out to indicate death by drowning. Strange. This is why I intuitively went with the 4th cusp, even though as far as I knew it should have been the 8th. The IC was a significant place in the horary and both event charts. In the 'time last seen' chart, his significator Mercury, is on the IC. In the 'body found' chart, Pluto R, sits on the IC. To me this is a demonstration of the strange power of horary to lead you to the truth. The IC called out to me despite me having not known that this was indeed the right place to look. It's when things stand out like this that my belief in astrology is affirmed.

I would still be grateful for any further insights upon this matter. What exactly was the contact that it seems that he had with these others?

Draco.

You must be psychic! How did you guess that my middle name was Tom?

I am not at all sure about the suicude idea that I put out there. It was just a thought.

Here's another one, but slightly more well grounded. It's not mine, I got it from another astrologer. Mars is the significator for accidents, so maybe this was an accident. And Neptune is the god of the sea, and he did drown, so maybe if you look at that square between Mars, the guy and Neptune, it could just mean an accidental drowning. Do people go in the water up there in the summer? I mean, do sane people go in the water?

There have only been those two contacts with Mars, the square with Neptune and the square with Mercury which is the 8th house ruler. Both of those just point to death and not so much to the cause, so maybe that's all this chart has to say.

[OK, I should never write late at night. I woke this morning and found some pretty big factual mistakes I had make in this post. So, with the light of a new day, here it is, minus the mistakes. Sorry if this caused some confusion.]

I?ve looked at the ?Last Seen? chart. He is Mercury in the 4th house. I don?t think it can be the grave because he?s still alive when the chart was done, can it? Maybe it means that he?s down in the dumps, depressed. More likely is that it means that he has just entered the end, the end of his life in this case.

The key thing about Mercury is that it is in a partile opposition with Neptune. Neptune sits directly on the 10th house cusp, saying ?Look at me!? Though the aspect is separating, which usually indicates a past event, it?s only 10? past perfection. But remember that he was last seen around midnight so this still could be due to the chart not being for the exact time he was last seen. I used Solar Fire and found that Mercury met Neptune exactly three hours before the time of this chart. He might not have been last seen at midnight precisely, but I doubt if the time was three hours off.

Either way, his significator opposite Neptune pretty clearly shows death by drowning.

Mercury?s next aspect is a square with Mars. Mars is very debilitated, in its detriment and peregrine and sits in the 12th house so it has the possibility of causing him serious harm. And he probably didn?t see it coming as the 12th house is the house of things you don?t see. So if you take the Mercury opposite Neptune aspect and add in their mutual square with Mars, that again points to something bad (an attack, an accident, something ? Mars) involving water (Neptune) that will lead to the death of the man.

Mercury?s next aspect after that is a sextile with Jupiter. Jupiter rules both the 7th and 11th houses, so it could represent either a girlfriend or just a friend. Jupiter is also keeping company with someone else (Venus), so either his girlfriend has another guy, or his friend brought along some company. Both are in the 5th house, the bar that he says he was going to. This is the tie in to the 5th house, the fact that Mercury meets Jupiter, who is in the 5th house. I don?t think it?s shown by the fact that Mercury rules the 5th house, but that?s a distinction without a difference.

Is his death shown by the 4th or by the 8th house? Well, Mercury makes no aspects with either the Sun, who rules the 4th house, or with Saturn who rules the 8th. Mercury and the Sun are in mutual reception by sign, which means that the two help each other out, so that?s not a bad thing. Though the Sun is in the 4th house, I can?t really be sure enough to say with confidence that the Sun has to do with his death.

But the Moon does translate light between Saturn, which rules the 8th house and Venus. Translation is a tough one to understand at first, and the key thing is that the first aspect has to have already happened at the time the chart was done. So in this case, the Moon has already separated from Saturn and it next applies to Venus. The next aspect the Moon makes after that is to Mercury, but that would not be called translation because both aspects are in the future. Does that make sense? How translation works is that it connects two bodies that are not connected otherwise. What does this mean? Venus rules the 12th house. Above I speculated that Venus could be that his girlfriend has another guy that she is interested in. The 12th house shows hidden enemies, so that does tie in with Venus representing a rival to him that he didn?t know about. The translation of light from Saturn to Venus brings some darkness and maybe some anger and jealousy to the romantic rival. The course of the Moon here ties all three people here together, but since its first contact starts off with Saturn, that adds a dark note to their dealings.

The Moon here is in the 12th house. The Moon is often said to show the person?s mood, and if he?s in the 12th house, it shows the man in an inaccessible place, a place where he?s lost, or feels confined. Since we know that he wasn?t really imprisoned, this has the be taken symbolically, like that he?s very withdrawn, or caught up in a hopeless situation, which he is because he?s going to die soon. The Moon doesn?t make any aspect with Mars, because they are only one sign away. After it translates light from Saturn to Mercury, it does apply by trine to Venus, then a sextile to Mercury, and then trine to Jupiter. I really can?t see anything that malicious with these aspects though. These are all sinister (left handed, with the flow of the signs, not sinister in the sense of ?bad?) aspects that the Moon makes to Venus, Mercury and Jupiter. These are things that he initiates, not things that they do to him. But with that translation of light from Saturn to Venus, particularly since the Moon is in the 12th house, and since Venus rules the 12th house, that certainly brings a dark shade to this meeting. So what started out as him meeting up with his friends in a bar takes on a different tone here. The fact that Jupiter receives the Moon by term and face shows that the deceased knows Jupiter, but not Venus, which is what we?d expect from Jupiter being a love interest, and Venus being an unknown rival.

Though the South Node is close to both Venus and Jupiter, I don?t think that?s bad enough for them to them to be directly involved in causing his death. The connection between Jupiter/Venus and Mercury and Moon are by sextile and by trine which doesn?t seem threatening. Again, the aspects between Mercury and Venus/Jupiter are sinister aspects, which show that they represent something that he did on his own, not something that they did to him.

I didn?t follow your reasoning about why you thought that the Jupiter person wanted something of theirs returned from the deceased man. Can you explain that more? I see that Jupiter disposits Pluto but I don?t follow you after that.

I also wouldn?t use the 7th house cusp as a sign for death. While it is the place where the Sun sets, this does not seem to be it?s symbolic meaning. Rather the 7th house cusp and house symbolize the concept of ?otherness?. This is because it?s opposite the ASC. So it symbolizes our opposites, our partners, whether by romance, or by enmity, those we oppose in court or through commerce. It?s not connected to death. The 8th house is. Also, we already have two signs of death as described above; we really don?t need another. But that's not an astrological argument against it; that's just a comment.

So if we sum all of this up, what do we have? We have the chance for the deceased to have found out that his girlfriend is involved with someone else, and we also see his death by drowning. I don't thing that he was killed by them. So his death could either have been through suicide or by a careless accident, his carelessness being aggravated by his anger and maybe drunkenness due to the bad romantic situation he was in. The police probably would have done toxicology tests on him to see if he was drunk, but I don't know what the results of this are. I don't see foul play in this at all.

One last comment is that we already know the outcome of the event, the man died. If this had been a horary and I saw these same signs, I wouldn?t forecast death. I might say that I see a possible accident (Mars), through carelessness (Neptune) that leads to loss (8th house), but death is not the only choice for these signs. But that would only be the case it this were a horary, not an event chart where we know the outcome.

Can you do my a favor and see if there are any antiscia to any of the planets? I?m going to call it quits for the night, but this is an interesting chart. Thanks for bringing it to us and for all of your hard work with it.

Mark,

Firstly, sorry for my mistake in calling you Tom. It is your middle name? Strange coincidence.

Thankyou for having such a good look at the chart. I'm glad you like this mystery. I feel that the 'time last seen' chart, is the best chart to look at with review to what happened to him. The horary is the next best, but still provides important clues to support the 'time last seen' chart, because this is the moment in which the question was put to the stars. The 'body found' chart is really surplus to requirements, but since the event was defined in space and time I just thought it would be interesting to have a look and compare.

What I have learned here, is that in casting a horary with inquiry regarding a missing person, unexplained death or murder, it is good to have a chart for the last time the person was seen. The future aspects of the Moon and significator show that which is to come to pass. The horary filling in the details in retrospect, with reference to past aspects to the Moon and significator. As least, this is my theory anyway.

In reference to Mercury in the 4th you said:

I don?t think it can be the grave because he?s still alive when the chart was done, can it? Maybe it means that he?s down in the dumps, depressed. More likely is that it means that he has just entered the end, the end of his life in this case.

Mercury is the grave, because I feel that Mercury about to hit the IC showed that he was about to encounter something fatal and terminal. It seemed to me, when he set out that night, that somehow, he had an appointment with death, something fatal and final waiting around the corner. I think you are right when you say he is just entering the end of his life, which is why this feels fated and preordained. If this death was already predetermined then this would strengthen the idea that he went out with suicidal intent. Either this, or the situation was set up for him. For him to be depressed, might be illustrated by the Mercurial significator, emphasising thought processes and state of mind, which are in the dark depths of the chart. As Mercury just separates from an opposition to Neptune then this could indicate that he was already drunk when he set out, rather clouded in his thinking, had he already planned to get drunk and jump in the sea perhaps? In any case Mercury on the IC and Neptune in opposition on the MC, would describe the significator overwhelmed by a Neptunian force.

I get Mercury as a separating aspect from Mars, not an applying one, so Mars represents something which happened before he set out. As Mars is in the 12th, he was wounded by a personal, private concern. Whatever affected him so painfully was coming from a hidden place. The impact of Mars was severe due to its great debility. This square occurs just before the opposition to Neptune. So it would seem that if he set out with fatal intent, Mars acted as the catalyst here. You say that Mercury applies to Mars, not seperates, are we looking at exactly the same charts? (Mercury=15Leo51, Mars=15Tau08, Neptune=15Aqu43).

Now, Mars is in Venus' domain and is troubled here and Venus is strong in her own sign in the 5th, implying something sexual? Or perhaps the 5th is a reference to the bar he said he was going to, and Venus is perhaps a person he encountered. I think we might be being a bit hasty though in thinking of Jupiter and Venus as 'people' however, I'm just not sure. Venus is the ruler of the 12th cusp and to whom Mars (the painful catalyst) is desposited to, therefore Venus has something to do with his private, hidden pain and as she is in the 5th, could this have had something to do with his sexual identity perhaps? There just seems to be a sexual implication, Mars exile. 12th=Venus exalt. 5th, presiding over his inner pain.

I wonder about the mutual reception between Mercury and the Sun, as the Sun rules the fatal IC, and both are in it's house, maybe that is not so good.

The fact that Mercury's next aspect is a sextile with Jupiter, ruler of the 7th and 11th and in the 5th, I agree would seem to suggest a partner or social acquaintence of some kind, but then perhaps a lover of some sort, because Jupiter is in the 5th and rules the 7th, as well as conjunct a powerful Venus and thus having presidence over his private inner pain (Mars 12th). Pluto R, looms on the 7th cusp, tainting the place of 'others' with an insidious and dangerous tone. Pluto retrograde was conjunct the IC in the 'body found' chart.

After his private pain had been dominated by Venus 5th, he got drunk and went out with thoughts of suicide or at least doom and failure. As his inner turmoil relates to Venus in the 5th, conjunct Jupiter, ruler of the Plutonic DC, this pain may have had to do with sexual relations with another. The sextile to Jupiter shows perhaps some contact made between the 'lover' and the significator after having already been privatately wounded by Venus, Jupiter's 'partner', he gets drunk or comes under the influence of drugs perhaps (NeptuneR/Mercury oppo.) and somehow contact is then made to Jupiter. Venus already caused him enough trouble presiding over his painful 12th Mars, but this contact with Jupiter is the instigator of his death, as the next aspect is to Pluto R on the DC. Would this mean though that he died through another, not through foul play, but because of the effect another had upon him? If Venus and Jupiter were two people as we're suspecting, then Venus is the 'hidden enemy' (12th ruler) who presided over his 'inner turmoil' (Mars/12th) that caused him to set out and encounter his dark fate. Jupiter, the coming aspect, was the 'open enemy' his interaction with whom took him to meet his fate, at the next aspect to Pluto R. What would have been the nature of the interaction between Mercury and Jupiter in that sextile? It being the penultimate aspect, it would give us significant clues as to what occured just before his death.

In reference to a toxicology report, it was not reported in the article that a test had been carried out, but a post mortem was due to take place.

I have looked in the newspaper for follow up articles but I have seen nothing as yet.

I looked at the horary, and noticed correlation between that and the 'last seen' chart described above. In the horary, the significator is the same debilitated Mars which decribed his private pain and inner turmoil (12th) in the 'last seen' chart, the horary has Mars in the 7th, showing that this turmoil was associated with an'other', a relationship. Venus rules Mars and the 12th in the 'last seen', and rules the DC in the horary, describing further the cause of his pain.

Perhaps this was suicide, but it would just seem strange.

As for planets in antiscion, is Mercury not antiscion with Mars? He would have been feeling his pain very keenly I suppose. What is it that the antscion is meant to reflect in interpretation?

Draco.

My mistake. Mercury is just separated from sqaure with Mars. So now it will translate it's light to Jupiter.

I agree with almost everything you said. I guess I see Jupiter as his girlfriend, and Venus as the interloper. Jupiter rules the 7th, so that the person he knows. Venus rules the 12th, maybe the unknown boyfriend of his girlfriend. When Mercury translates from Mars to Jupiter, it means that he gets mad at the girlfriend. When the Moon translates from Saturn to Venus, it shows him finding out about the other man, and being angry, hurt and jealous.

I don't think Mercury is the grave because he is Mercury. He's just entered the 4th house, so however we phrase it, "he's down in the dumps", or "he's entered the final phase", it's just a choice of wording or emphasis.

I guess I do see Jupiter and Venus as people, Jupiter as the 7th house ruler being a girlfriend. Though of course this could be a same sex relationship, but as far as we're concerned this is only a difference in pronouns. Jupiter is in Venus's sign and about to become conjunct. That's why I thought that Venus is his girlfriend's real love interest. Jupiter receives Mercury by triplicity and face, so she knows him and is friends with him but her real love is the guy represented by Venus. Venus rule the 12th, a hidden enemny or rival.

I think you're right to call Mars the catalyst here though, along with Saturn. There are two translations of light here, one from Saturn to Venus via the Moon and the other from Mars to Jupiter via Mercury. That's a lot really. And both connect the deceased with this couple in a bad way.

Would this mean though that he died through another, not through foul play, but because of the effect another had upon him?

Yeah, pretty much. I interpreted all those sinister aspects as being things that he did himself, not as things done to him. But his contacts with these people were involved with his death.

Yes, the antiscion of Mars is conjunct Mercury and also the antiscion of Mercury is conjunct Mars. So anger is with him and he is with anger.

You said he was staying in a hotel with his parents. I guess they were on vacation. This is just a thought. If he had a girlfriend, a real one that is, she would probably be in his home town. Maybe they come to this place every year or regularly at least and this Jupiter person is someone who he is interested in but who he doesn't see much of because of the distance. So he gets to the town and he looks her up. He goes out for a drink but finds out that she has a boyfriend in the town where she lives. He gets drunk and despondent and an accident happens and he drowns. Sure it's speculation, but it's plausible, even if it can't be verified.

We're both on the same page on this chart - double translation from both Mars and Saturn, a meet up in a bar, most likely with a couple, one who's either a girlfriend or an open enemy or both, the other who is a secret enemy and he ends up in the drink.

Hi Mark,

I think the way you summarised the chart would probably just about sum it up. I would be satisfied with that interpretation. Hopefully there will be further details to come to light regarding the circumstances surrounding his death. At the very least it will probably be reported whether his death was deemed suicide or accidental by the post mortem, but then I suppose it would be difficult to tell, a drowning is a drowning.

I would definitely agree with Jupiter being the 'significant other' in this case, Venus is Jupiter's accomplice. I still think that there is malice emanating from these two otherwise benefic planets, as the South Node is so close to them both.

Suicide would just seem so strange, when he was on a family holiday and as far as his family was concerned he was fine. This is why the death is regarded as mysterious, because suicide is so unlikely.

I will post any information which may come to light regarding this incident.

Thankyou,

Draco

Could you supply the name of the guy? Maybe that way I can track news about him on the Internet.

Is the South Node evil or just dark? Though it's said to be the equivalent to a malefic, its astronomical basis is that is the place where the Moon's course meets the ecliptic, so it's the place where eclipses happen. I notice that Bonatti regards both the South and North Nodes as bad, especially for the Moon. And that makes sense, because that is where the light of the Moon is snuffed out. But why should they be bad for any other planet? And why is one said to be good, while the other bad? I wish I knew more about these things from an astronomical point. If a lunar eclipse is where the Moon is darkened and thereby weakened, would a Solar eclipse then be a good thing for the Moon and bad for the Sun? By definition the Moon would be cazimi. Does anyone know if both kinds of eclipses happen at both nodes?

Anyway, though I know that the regular advice is to see the South Node as a malefic, I think the real meaning is darkness. Since nothing else in this chart indicates foul play, I'd think that the darkness of the South Node is shown not as reflection on the character of Jupiter and Venus, but that to this poor guy they brought darkness into his life.

Here is the relevant article in full:

29/08/05
Mystery Behind Body on Beach

MYSTERY surrounds the last movements of a teenager whose body was washed up on the beach at Blackpool.
Anthony David Murphy, 19, was last seen at midnight on Friday when he left the hotel he was staying at with his family to go out alone for a late-night drink.
His body was discovered just after 8am on Saturday on the beach at Bispham by a member of the public who alerted the police.
Detectives are appealing for information after inquires drew a blank. They are still unsure what happened to the student, who worked as a barman in his home town of Manchester.
Det Insp Tony Conboye, of Blackpool CID, who is leading the investigation, said: ''The only injuries he had were slight and consistent with him having been in the sea and it is clear that he had not been in the water very long.''.
''He had all his personal belongings on him including his wallet and his mobile phone so he has not been the victim of a robbery and there is no suggestion at this stage that he has deliberately taken his own life.''
"On Saturday night we had officers patrolling the Promenade in the vicinity of where the body was found, between Uncle Tom's Cabin and North Pier, in order to find any potential witnesses.''.
He added: "So far our inquiries have proved unsuccessful.
"Mr Murphy's family are understandably deeply shocked and traumatised by what has happened."
Mr Murphy was staying at the Boston Hotel on Queen's Promenade with his parents and other members of his family who had travelled from their home in Clayton, Manchester, to spend the Bank Holiday weekend in Blackpool.
The hotel's manager said Mr Murphy's mother was originally from Scotland and the family was enjoying a reunion in Blackpool when the tragedy happened.
He said: "Everyone is very shocked by what has happened and the staff are very upset. Anthony was just enjoying himself and it is a terrible thing to happen."
Police will continue their inquiries into Mr Murphy's death today and will be looking at images from CCTV cameras to see if they can trace his last movements. More information is also expected when a post-mortem is held tomorrow.
Mr Murphy is described as 6ft 2in, of medium build, with short, mid-brown hair and clean shaven. At the time of his death he was wearing dark blue denim jeans, a T-shirt with an Echo Unlimited logo on it and dark grey Nike Air trainers.

Mark,

I don't know how to send you the news-site so that you just have to click on it, so to save you searching I've pasted the article in full. As you can see his name was Anthony Murphy. I should have posted this right at the beginning. The article is important as these are the only details we have to go on.

I ought to mention, that part of the area between North Pier and Uncle Tom's Cabin is a secluded and sheltered area of the seafront which plays host to a some nocturnal activity.

Regarding the Lunar Nodes, I also find them a bit confusing. In Vedic astrology the North Node is malefic, as this is the fire breathing Dragon head, that consumes and devours. The South is benefic as this is the Dragons Tail, so the danger has fled. I suppose the western view is that the North Node or Dragon's Head is benefic, because it can see where it's going and move forward. The Dragon's Tail on the other hand lags behind, and so is a regressive influence, that which we must move away from. I still see something generally bad in the South Node with Venus/Jupiter somehow.

I posted this same question on another forum, and the response I received is very interesting, as it very closely reflects the general themes which we agreed upon:

I have looked at only one chart:
'What were the circumstances surrounding his death?'
12:46, 29th August, 2005, St. Annes-3w02/53n45, England.


I see him as
--Mars: his main significator
--Mercury: Mercury is in 9 ? he was in a hotel, so presumably on a trip? Mercury rules the 8 (death, suicide, autodestruction) and the 10 (authorities, involved because the circumstances of his death).
--Jupiter: in 11, conjunct Venus and SN, unhappy lover. Jupiter rules the 2 (self-value, here, since Jupiter is afflicted, feeling of unworthiness) and is lord of Pisces, which is intercepted in 4: end of things,

Venus = the woman he is in love with (Mars in 7, in the sign/triplicity of Venus). Venus is in 11 (friendship) conjunct Jupiter, in the term of Jupiter = she likes him, but she sees him as a friend, not a lover. Venus is in the exaltation, triplicity and face of Saturn: Venus plays a crucial role in his fate, and a fatal one (conjunct SN, and lord of 12).

Moon = his cosignificator, the event. In 8: Death, autodestruction, suicide.

Saturn = his fate, because he rules the 4th, in which Pisces (Jupiter) is intercepted.

Neptune = means of the death, state of mind at the moment, because Neptune is in 3 - risk of accident during a trip on water and also hints at alcohol. It is retrograde, therefore afflicted. The 3 is ruled by Saturn (feeling of isolation).

Uranus = The death itself. Uranus (retrograde=afflicted) is in 4, the "end of things", ruled by Saturn, and in Pisces (water sign), house of Jupiter, which is intercepted in the 4th = at the moment of death, he was "prisoner" of Saturn, his fate and at the mercy of Uranus. Uranus is in opposition with the POF.


He (Mars) is feeling lost, even depressive (Mars peregrine, in detriment) because he loves a woman (Mars in 7, in Venus sign) who doesn?t love him, but sees him only as friend (Venus in 11, conjunct SN and Jupiter). His depression drives him to "exalt" the idea of death (Mars in Moon exaltation and face, Moon in 8, death, suicide, autodestruction) because of his unhappy love (Venus lord of 12, suicide).
The matter comes to a head during this trip ? Mercury (him) in 9 as well as Saturn (his fate). Saturn is in his face, leaving him a slight change to get out this unharmed. Unfortunately, that night, he drank too much (Mercury/Neptune opposition), mulled over dark thoughts of death which worsened his feeling of unworthiness and his depression (Mercury/Pluto trine, Pluto in 2, ruled by Jupiter), also his feeling of confusion and isolation (Neptune in 3, Saturn lord of 3)
Deeply depressed, drunk, he goes swimming or takes a boat and meets his fate: Neptune in 3, risk of accident on water, Uranus (unexpected and brutal event) in 4 (end of things). Being deprived of free will, probably because of alcohol, he is unable to seize the slight chance offered by Fate (he is "prisoner" of Saturn, but Saturn in its face left him an opportunity which he lost when he submitted to Neptune influence) and can?t escape death.

In conclusion : His death was an accident. He was toying with the idea of suicide which explains he took dangerous risks, but were it not for alcohol (unable to swim or immersion hypothermia?), he would have survived the accident.

In conclusion : His death was an accident. He was toying with the idea of suicide which explains he took dangerous risks, but were it not for alcohol (unable to swim or immersion hypothermia?), he would have survived the accident. [/i]

I though this might be of interest.

The only thing I don't agree with is that he took a boat or went swimming. That night the tide would have been in next to the sea wall, the water is very cold and not very clean, its not the kind of waters people swim in. The currents are very strong, and once your in there, if the tide is up there is little chance of not being dragged under, inparticular if someone is drunk or can't swim.

I find the conclusion that he was toying with the idea of suicide interesting, as this is how desperate he was feeling, but due to drunkeness or being unable to swin, once he was in the water he found that he couldn't get out of it.

What is interesting is that this interpretation is based on the horary, and yet it would seem to compliment what we came up with in the 'time last seen' chart nicely.