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Lot of Kingship?

1 by Mark
I am a little unclear on the exact calculation for this. Also does it vary by day/night? Could anyone give me a textual reference for this?

I assume its in the writings of Abu Ma'Shar?

Thanks

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

3 by irisalbus
Hello Mark,

In Ben Dykes' "Introduction to Astrology: Abu Ma'shar and Al-Qabisi" there are
1) the Lot of the Kingdom and Authority: calculated from Mars to Moon by day and conversely by night, projected from the ASC;
2) the Lot of Power or Kingdom or Supremacy: calculated from the Sun to Saturn by day and conversely by night, projected from the ASC.;
plus some mundane lots about the kingdom in general, by Al-Qabisi.


Iris

4 by johannes susato
. . . and Al Biruni:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/alparts.html
Noble births: Asc + Degree of exaltation of the lord of time - lord of time (reverse at night)
Kings and Sultans Administrators, vazirs [ministers], etc.: Asc + Mars - Mercury (reverse at night) --probably not kings and sultans themselves--
Celebrated persons of rank: Asc + Sun - Saturn
Sultan. Those concerned In nativities: Asc + Moon - Saturn

6 by astroart
My opinion is that Haly Abenragel is the only one Arabic author who gives an authentic and accurate formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship. See the second formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship in:

Haly Abenragel, De judiciis astrorum, Basel, 1551, page 232 down

Same formula have used the Byzantine and Hellenistic astrologers as well.
http://www.astro-art.com/

7 by johannes susato
astroart wrote:My opinion is that Haly Abenragel is the only one Arabic author who gives an authentic and accurate formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship. See the second formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship in:

Haly Abenragel, De judiciis astrorum, Basel, 1551, page 232 down

Same formula have used the Byzantine and Hellenistic astrologers as well.
Would you mind to give us this authentic and accurate formula right now, astroart?

8 by Mark
Astroart wrote:
My opinion is that Haly Abenragel is the only one Arabic author who gives an authentic and accurate formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship. See the second formula for calculating the Lot of Kingship in:

Haly Abenragel, De judiciis astrorum, Basel, 1551, page 232 down
I dont need the entire reference but could you tell us the planets involved and calculation method?

Astroart wrote:
Same formula have used the Byzantine and Hellenistic astrologers as well.
Which hellenistic sources did you have in mind for this lot?

Thanks

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

9 by irisalbus
At the site of the Warburg Institute I have found "De iudiciis astrorum" and beginning from the middle of the first column of page 232 it says (as far as I can read the facsimile print - those of you good at Latin please forgive my mistakes in the transcription):

"Pars regni & magisterii accipitur de die a Marte in Lunam, & de nocte converso, & proijcitur ad ascendente [....]
Pars regis alio modo accipit de die a Sole in Sat. & de nocte contrario, & proijcit ab ascendente & si Satur. fuerit sub radiis, accipit de die a Sole in Iove & de nocte contrario, & proijcit ab ascendente [....]
Pars magisteriorum alio modo accipit de die&nocte a Satur. in Luna, & proijcit ab ascendente: significator hec pars similiter regnum &potentia &valetudine nati...."

Based on my basic Latin knowledge the first two seem the same as the ones of Abu Ma'shar indicates: from Mars to Moon (and conversely by night), projected from the ASC, or "another way", from Sun to Saturn (and conversely by night), projected from the ASC., with the distinction that if Saturn was under the rays, then one should take it from the Sun to Jupiter (etc).
The third one, that indicates "similar things" for/of the native, is counted from Saturn to the Moon, both by day and night, and project it from the ASC.

warburg.sas.ac.uk/library/digital-collections/bibliotheca-astrologica/#c972

Iris

10 by Ile
Hi Iris, yes I was looking for that passage too [at Haly Abenragel].
Thanks for the translation.

Regiomontanus in his famous analysis of the chart of Maximilian I, uses the lot counted from Saturn to Moon, he calls it Pars Regni and Janus software calculates the same lot with the name "Kingship and what native does" if I recall right.

I think that Regiomontanus was familiar with Haly's work, because he uses his approach in delineating the time of marriage, that is, by directing Jupiter to the Part of Marriage, something for which I think Haly is known for later in the Renaissance period. The famous Rennaisance astrologer Guiliano Ristori also used this approach and ascribed it to Abenragel.

I use this lot, though I keep an open mind for the other lots of kingship too.

12 by johannes susato
astroart wrote:I mean the second formula in the text on the page 232, first column below or:

Image
Thank you, astroart!

"[..] this degree/part is got in the day from the Sun to the Moon, and conversely at night and they project from the degree of the tenth house."

The formula then would be:
MC + Moon - Sun (in the day)
MC + Sun - Moon (in the night).

Johannes
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