Hi Deb,

I absolutely agree with you that understanding the underlying concepts is more important than snapshot definitions or just saying, "And Abu Ma'shar said..." I believe the first volume that Hindsight is putting out does include Antiochus of Athens (which I do not have). I will be interested in seeing what it has in it.

Planetary phases w/r/t the sun. Apart from combustion, I rarely pay attention to them because I am not convinced that their meaning is really that clear. Usually they appear in generic lists like, "If Venus is oriental, free from the beams, unafflicted by the malefics, direct," etc. But I hope this will be clarified soon.

Ben

I think they are really very important because they underlie a lot of other principles - but most astrologers have been ignoring them, so far... Trust me, it's a hot issue that's about to come to the surface. It's only a matter of time before P.H. will be telling us that we can't understand astrology at all unless we know more about this

Stephanie - I am so glad your Venus is holding out

Mark - been meaning to say this for some time. Of course I never imagined you were making anything up, I just couldn't see the point of discussing someone else's views through a third party.

Tom - I trust you are too much of a gentleman to make an immature comment like "I told you so!"

Tom - I trust you are too much of a gentleman to make an immature comment like "I told you so!"

Oh no not at all. It's a holiday here in the States, and I've been too busy with guests to follow this. I do think I said something about losing the battle and winning the war though.

Tom

May I ask a question. Would it be possible to offer some suggestions as to how a person with a Venus Combust would experience it, if it were not protected from the Sun, but in fact was 'burned up'. I believe that my Venus works well. I may be wrong, but I believe it does. And it occurs to me that that 'covered chariot, protecting my Venus from the Sun' may be the reason that I've been in some situations in my life where perhaps I could have ended up hurt, but haven't been. Maybe I have flown a little too close to the Sun occasionally, but seem not to get burned up. If Venus was put out of action by Combustion, I wonder if I would feel this way. What, instead, would be my experience? Or am I mistaken in feeling that my Venus works well?

Forgive me if I'm not asking the sort of question that should be asked here. I'm just so interested in trying to understand this. Put it down to my Mars in Aries, also 'under the beams of the Sun' also in the 7th!

Regards,
Stephanie

I do think that natal astrology calls for a different perspective on this, because mundane or event astrology, or horary, limits the application of the symbolism to a narrowly defined set of circumstances. But all the experience that a person gets in a lifetime makes them so much more than their birth chart - it is never about whether your Venus works well, but do you work your Venus well?

Try not to get stuck on this phrase ?burnt up?. Combustion can mean many things and they all derive out of the fact that a planet is so close to the Sun that there is no part of the diurnal cycle in which it can be seen in its own light. The notion that this can be useful in certain situations (ie, a protector) is valid, just as there are times in electional astrology when we would seek to commence the event on conditions we would normally avoid. One of the traditional interpretations of combustion, for example, is secrecy and things that can be hidden from view. On a more psychological level, the ancient view upholds the idea of transformation ? planets entering into conjunction with the Sun are bringing to a close a major cycle of experience. Those that are separating from the Sun are starting out on a new cycle, but ? at least until they can be seen in their own light - they are vulnerable, in the sense that young children are vulnerable. The Sun is seen as the greater force that overwhelms them and during this period the theme is either about bringing understanding and resolution to past actions and events, and letting go of that old skin; or it is about preparing for something new, but not yet being in a strong position to activate it. Either way combustion describes a focus on internalisation.

You can understand the principle of combustion in birth charts very clearly from the kind of approach we take to the Moon when it is either ?old? or ?new?. We are merely extending this principle to the other planets. Traditionally, conjunction with the Sun is one of the worst states of affliction for the Moon, and we can understand how all the traditional descriptions of death, loss, and weakness apply. But at the same time we accept that something very creative and fertilising is taking place, so we don?t drop our jaws on the floor in horror when we see someone with a New Moon in their birth chart! I think it will be much easier for you to understand the principle in operation in your birth chart, if you don?t focus so much on the word ?combust? and think of your Venus as an ?old? Venus or a ?new? Venus instead.

Very helpful . Thanks very much Deb. Regards, Stephanie

On this matter I did a horary just a couple of days ago regarding a family member?s ?ex?. That chart had Mercury, ruling the 8th and placed in the 8th applying to combustion. What I didn?t know at the time was that the ex had been found in a street having taken an overdose. He was taken to hospital and his stomach was pumped. Initially he was fine ? full of remorse for what he?d done. (He?s had a bad drink problem for a long time). Yesterday the news emerged that his liver has been so badly damaged by this that he won't be expected to live beyond the next few days. I?m not closely involved with this man but my family member is and it?s a tragic situation.

Lilly tells us that combustion in the 8th house is the strongest argument of death (where death is an issue of course). Actually no one anticipated this man being anything more than a lingering nuisance when this chart was cast and it?s not the first time I?ve seen this sort of combustion give a clear indication of death. The astrological point is that Mercury was strongly dignified but combust. However, it was the ruler of the 8th house ? so we could argue that Mercury wasn?t debilitated by the combustion, far from it. The effect was still debilitating though. This demonstrates why you can?t just take a black and white approach to these things; you can only make a judgement using the principles of the symbolism involved.