use of the term "astrologist" 1 by LynnHayes Hi all - Does anyone have any history of the use of this term? There is a bit of a debate going on in a facebook group I belong to (I started the argument). I contend that "astrologist" is an incorrect term for an astrologer that is used only by people who don't know anything about astrologers. Someone said that this term was used in the early 20th century, someone else said that it is in common usage in Europe. Thoughts? Ideas? Facts? thanks, Lynn Quote Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:35 pm
No such thing as 'Europe' 2 by lihin Good morning, Linguistically and in several other respects there is no such thing as 'Europe'. Diversities of various kinds describe this continent, actually a north-western peninsula of the great Eurasian land mass. Slavic languages are the most frequent by population. Someone who knows ex. gr. Russian will perhaps reply on them. Next come, by population, languages of direct Latin descent like French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Rumanian. The ones i know use words equivalent to 'astrologer', not 'astrologist'. Third by population come the Germanic languages of the north-western part of the continent like German, English and Dutch, although English has a very high portion of its vocabulary from Latin root words through old French. The only language amongst them to my knowledge with 'astrologist' is English. So the question appears to be inter-English. Some astrologers have felt the noun 'astrologer' to have a negative connotation and have sought other designations, for example 'Kosmobiologe' in German within the Aalen school founded by Herr Reinhold Ebertin. Since the general public perceives astrology as a form of infotainment and several notorious astrologers willingly cater to this taste whilst others apparently do little to oppose it, some embarrassment is understandable. Astrology ceased to be a university discipline, India excepted, mostly during the 18th century CE. It thus has no legal protection, applicable academic standards, etc. Best regards, lihin Non esse nihil non est. Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:32 am
3 by Atlantean Hello Lynn, Here is a thesaurus entry for "astrologist." It does not include the etymology, but it definitely lists "astrologist" as a valid synonym for "astrologer." James / Atlantean Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:56 am
4 by Juan Atlantean wrote:... as a valid synonym some astrologists have affinity with astronomists, other with psychologers, while others act like preachists and mysanthropers. j. Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:35 am
6 by LynnHayes Thanks for your comments; however, I don't think that any of us would consider "soothsayer" as an acceptable synonym for what we do, regardless of whether it is listed in the thesaurus or not! Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:17 pm
7 by Atlantean Hello Lynn, The definition I have for soothsayer is: "someone who makes predictions of the future (usually on the basis of special knowledge)" That seems like a LOT of astrologers... though, I agree, most wouldn't "own up to it." James Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:26 pm
8 by Martin Gansten LynnHayes wrote:Thanks for your comments; however, I don't think that any of us would consider "soothsayer" as an acceptable synonym for what we do, regardless of whether it is listed in the thesaurus or not! I recall that Robert Zoller in his foundation course explicitly identified as a soothsayer, alluding to the etymological meaning of the word (sooth = true): I try to be a soothsayer. That is, I try to read the horoscope and honestly say what?s there believing that it is an accurate measure of reality (though how it is I can?t say). I'll second that. As for the original query, the OED says that astrologist is 'chiefly N. Amer.' and attested from the mid-20th century. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:19 pm
10 by Mark LynnHayes wrote: Does anyone have any history of the use of this term? There is a bit of a debate going on in a facebook group I belong to (I started the argument). I contend that "astrologist" is an incorrect term for an astrologer that is used only by people who don't know anything about astrologers. Someone said that this term was used in the early 20th century, someone else said that it is in common usage in Europe. Thoughts? Ideas? Facts? thanks, Lynn Getting back to your original question it sounds like you need someone with an outstanding understanding of both books and periodicals in that period. As you are including Europe as well as the English speaking world in your query the person that automatically comes to mind is Philip Graves. Philip is a member here although not always active so you could PM him and direct him to this thread. Philip is an exceptionally helpful fellow. Unless he is really busy I am sure he will be happy to share his knowledge on this. The other person that comes to mind is Kim Farnell. She has a very good understanding of British late nineteenth and early 20th century sources. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:20 pm
11 by LynnHayes Philip Graves is in the Facebook group in which this discussion ensued and here is what he reports: Philip Graves I'm surprised to learn that you encountered the word 'astrologist' used in Europe, Theodore! May I ask what nationality the people who used it were? 'Astrologist' is entirely absent from the British and French astrological literature as far as I have been able to ascertain from collecting it. The only publication from just over 5,000 books and pamphlets, besides numerous journals, in my collection of astrological literature, that uses the word 'astrologist' in its title is American: Whitty, Michael (ed.) ?An Astrological Symposium: the Predictions of Ten Prominent American Astrologists on the War? Azoth Publishing Company, 1917 Whitty was the editor of Azoth magazine, a general occult magazine. I think he simply didn't know better, but it might alternatively be that he had come upon a subculture where the word 'astrologist' was used, in his time and locality within the United States. English astrologers are called 'astrologers'. French astrologers are called 'astrologues'. German astrologers are called 'astrologen'. Spanish ones appear to be called 'astrologos' and Italian ones 'astrologi'. Quote Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:00 pm
12 by Tom I think the prejudice against the word "astrologist" is American. Linguistically it is valid, but In the USA it has a "down market" association. I've only seen the word "astrologist" used on the signs of store front fortune tellers like: "Nadej, Sees All Knows All Palm Reader Astrologist." Hand readers are equally upset that their art is known as "palm reading." Astrologers of the type that hang around Skyscript don't wish to be associated with fortune tellers and therefore shy away from the term "astrologist." The odds are that the astrologist does not cast a chart. They would perform an ephemeris reading at best - the kind done at "Psychic Fairs" that were popular a decade or so ago. So your English teacher would have to give you full credit for using astrologist as a synonym for astrologer, but most of us cringe. Quote Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:13 pm