Here is the above mentioned quotation (from the internet), Morin, AG, Book 21, p. 15:

"Consider my own horoscope: I was born during daytime and the
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Saturn are in the twelfth house and
square Mars which rules the Ascendant. The Moon is therefore the
significator of the parents because it is ruler of the fourth, and of my
mother in particular since the Moon is feminine and is located in the
feminine sign Pisces; its separation from the conjunction of Saturn while
applying to no other planet indicates dislike by my parents ?
particularly by my mother ? and unfair treatment at her hands."

Johannes

johannes susato wrote:Here is the above mentioned quotation (from the internet), Morin, AG, Book 21, p. 15:

"Consider my own horoscope: I was born during daytime and the
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Saturn are in the twelfth house and
square Mars which rules the Ascendant. The Moon is therefore the
significator of the parents because it is ruler of the fourth, and of my
mother in particular since the Moon is feminine and is located in the
feminine sign Pisces; its separation from the conjunction of Saturn while
applying to no other planet indicates dislike by my parents ?
particularly by my mother ? and unfair treatment at her hands."

Johannes

I am not sure what he is trying to say.
He is against "signifactors by essential nature" because of multiplicity of signifactions.He says or means that these signifactions are better off split according to house lordship.
Then he goes on to pick 4th for parents which has atleast two protagonists and then tries to seperate them into male and female by the essential nature of planets and signs.
If 4th is parents and moon is somehow justified as mother then where does the father go... he is not sun because Morin thinks , in his horooscope, Sun is his enemy.

So who does represent his father in that horoscope ?

Do you have Morin's email or twitter tag

PD

pankajdubey wrote:

johannes susato wrote:Here is the above mentioned quotation (from the internet), Morin, AG, Book 21, p. 15:

"Consider my own horoscope: I was born during daytime and the
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Saturn are in the twelfth house and
square Mars which rules the Ascendant. The Moon is therefore the
significator of the parents because it is ruler of the fourth, and of my
mother in particular since the Moon is feminine and is located in the
feminine sign Pisces; its separation from the conjunction of Saturn while
applying to no other planet indicates dislike by my parents ?
particularly by my mother ? and unfair treatment at her hands."

Johannes

I am not sure what he is trying to say.
He is against "signifactors by essential nature" because of multiplicity of signifactions.He says or means that these signifactions are better off split according to house lordship.
Then he goes on to pick 4th for parents which has atleast two protagonists and then tries to seperate them into male and female by the essential nature of planets and signs.
If 4th is parents and moon is somehow justified as mother then where does the father go... he is not sun because Morin thinks , in his horooscope, Sun is his enemy.

So who does represent his father in that horoscope ?

Do you have Morin's email or twitter tag

PD

His email?
You may have to ring St Peter

"However, the Sun is in partile conjunction with Jupiter, and this caused
Cardinal Richelieu to be my secret enemy as this Sun is in the twelfth
along with Saturn. The Sun here is the significator of powerful enemies
and the injuries caused by them, but not of my father although I was
born during daylight; in fact, my father never disliked me and never
deliberately did me any harm. And so, this horoscope is an example of
how the universal significators are not able to refer to any specific
situation or event since, considered by themselves only, their meaning
and application remain too general."

Perhaps this second part of the same paragraph of the same page 15 of Book 21, AG by Morin gives more insights of Morin's teachings in contrast to those of Ptolemy?

His mother, female part of the parents, represented by the Moon in a female sign, becomes an enememy to Morin. The same with Cardinal Richelieu: a public man becomes an enemy (Saturn Lord 10 in the 12th) and this is a very powerful (Jupiter) and a reigning (the Sun) man. But at the same time it is not so powerful that Morin would not overcome all this mischief, because Jupiter in his own sign protects against the worst of the 12th house: his dying mother gives him a kind of blessing, he gains a part of his heritage, and after the death of Richelieu Morin recovers his royal award.

It is probably not too misleading to assume, that at the first glance in Morin's horoscope the father does not seem to be of very great importance for him.

Johannes

Let's back up a little bit here. A criticism often levied against Morin is usually stated this way: "He does not believe in general significators." That isn't exactly true. He does agree that the Moon signifies all things feminine, daughters, sisters, mothers, wives female friends etc. However they cannot, in his view, signify all those things in every chart. To this effect he quotes Cardan who wonders what kind of Moon it would take in a man's chart that would result in all sorts of contradictory things happening to the women in his life? The point is that if the Moon meant all those things in every chart, whenever there was a direction to the Moon, whatever happened to the mother would also happen simultaneously to the wife, sisters, daughters etc. And as he notes, we know that isn't true by experience.

The Moon has an analogy with the mother, and if it is posited in or rules an appropriate house, i.e. one that also has an analogy with the mother, then the Moon signifies the mother, but not the sisters, wife, or daughters.

The fourth house is the parents. This is basic traditional astrology. Since the mother is a parent, and the Moon is feminine by nature and in a feminine sign, and rules the 4th house, the Moon is his mother. End of story.

The father in his chart is a bit trickier. We can of course eliminate the Moon. Our first alternatives then would be the Sun or Saturn. In book 17 Morin makes this remark on page 52 of the Holden translation (AFA):

Finally, what good fortune [would have occurred] for my parents after my birth, on account of the Sun and Moon, rulers of the fourth; ...

This is a stretch. 13 Cancer is on the 4th cusp, but the 5th starts at 1 Leo (Regiomontanus) , so only 0 Leo 59 is in the 4th, but Morin gives the Sun as co-ruler. But it is what he said.

He tells us that his father recovered from his fevers, but he tells us nothing else. He complains about being cheated from his inheritance, and seems to blame his mother, so either she controlled the purse strings or his father was the culprit.

Tom wrote:To this effect he quotes Cardan who wonders what kind of Moon it would take in a man's chart that would result in all sorts of contradictory things happening to the women in his life?

And as this quotation must be read I add it here (from Morin, AG, p. 14):
"Says Cardanus:

"What then
must be the condition of the Moon in the horoscope of one whose wife
had died in childbirth but himself lived a long life, who had many
healthy daughters but also maid-servants who ran away, who had a sound
body but a mother who died young, and who himself showed a poor
moral character?" "

Johannes

There is an easier way to solve the problem.

Tell Morin, "Your older brother was mischievous, he should not have asked you to choose between your parents(and then go and tell the dying mom ) ".

The elder brother was born before (obviously), so he is not directly controlled by Morin's chart but harm from the brother shows up.
Mars the 1st lord is in 3rd in fall.South node is conjunct the third cusp.
Now, Morin can re-write the Astrologica Gallica, not pick up a fight with Gallileo, and look! the devil's clock is on everyone's wrist now -so why not forgive Cardinal Richelieu anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bapti ... ematician)

I am not sure but it seems medieval french inheritance laws allowed the females to be pretty fiesty about the wealth they inherited.In modern sense she probably only gave the "reserve money " from which she could not have disinherited him and distributed all the free money to other kids.
The good old brother benefitted generously.
http://www.french-property.com/guides/f ... hts/#2.1.1.


Just one correct approach to events at age 12 and he could have ended up on the right side of history.

se17.bowdoin.edu/filemanager/active?fid=82

PD