....And of course Deb' consistently pointed to the malefic influence of the 3rd house in this chart, and the girl's neighbour has confessed to killing her.
Congratulations aren't really appropriate given such a tragic turn of events, but I think Deb deserves some recognition for her insight into this.
===
Pete

Pete wrote:

Not bad, Pete! Although you said North-west, and it seems to be North-east...

Thanks T,
yes, I consider that I only got it half right. Had the police been following my lead they wouldn't have found the poor girl's remains.
The Moon's sign - Aries - suggests east, so if I'd used that, and the Moon's hemisphere - north - I would have been spot on I suppose.
Something to remember in the future....
===
Pete

Well, Deb said:

The directions are all over the place ? if there is any emphasis it seems to point towards the west, but the emphasis isn?t strong, so this might be best ignored.

and she also said:

Most of the signification in this chart is succeedent so the search ought to be not too far from where she lives

so that was accurate as well.

You originally took the signification of Jupiter I think to point West, but in retrospect took the moon's sign for the correct direction. So is there something we can conlude from this? Why was one correct and not the other?
Also, if you don't mind, can you just tell us how you came up with the direction that you did, and why did you take the Moon's signification and not Jupiter's?

Terribly impressed by both you and Deb....
You guys can predict the future - what a powerful (and sometimes dangerous, I think) skill to have!!

You originally took the signification of Jupiter I think to point West, but in retrospect took the moon's sign for the correct direction.

I actually took the Moon's house position, not the sign, and I cross-referenced this with Jupiter's sign, which in fact was mixing apples and oranges.

So is there something we can conclude from this? Why was one correct and not the other?
Also, if you don't mind, can you just tell us how you came up with the direction that you did, and why did you take the Moon's signification and not Jupiter's?

I was following Lilly's lead on page 320 of C.A., where he is speaking of "Beasts strayed, servants fled and things lost" Under the sub-heading:
The Place Where The Thing Is That Is Lost", he says:

The signifier of where the thing is at the time of the question, is the place of the Moon, according to the nature of the sign she is in....Behold also the place of the Moon in the figure, for if she be in the ascendant, it is in the east, &c.

I therefore took the Moon's house (5th) to indicate northwest, according to Lilly. Unfortunately I ignored the Moon's sign.

Terribly impressed by both you and Deb....
You guys can predict the future - what a powerful (and sometimes dangerous, I think) skill to have!!

It *is* a skill yes, to be able to read a horary correctly. I just wish someone could have looked at this girl's natal chart and forewarned her of the danger she was about to fall into.
But perhaps that would have been interfering with Fate too much. From a philosophical perspective I suppose one could say it was her "time", and I doubt if Fate of these proportions can actually be thwarted.
But that is a philosophical question that greater minds than mine have wrestled with for centuries...
===
Pete

The signifier of where the thing is at the time of the question, is the place of the Moon, according to the nature of the sign she is in....Behold also the place of the Moon in the figure, for if she be in the ascendant, it is in the east, &c.

I therefore took the Moon's house (5th) to indicate northwest, according to Lilly. Unfortunately I ignored the Moon's sign.

So you got North from the Moon's house position (5th) and East from the Moon's sign Aries, right? (....ok I admit - sometimes I can be terribly slow...)

It *is* a skill yes, to be able to read a horary correctly. I just wish someone could have looked at this girl's natal chart and forewarned her of the danger she was about to fall into.

I don't mean to take up too much of your time (ever the polite Taurus7 that I am....) but what could have been some of the indications in this girl's natal chart that could have indicated that something like this may happen?

But perhaps that would have been interfering with Fate too much. From a philosophical perspective I suppose one could say it was her "time", and I doubt if Fate of these proportions can actually be thwarted.

In my religion, we strongly believe that everyone has a set time in this world. While astrology can predict, I don't think us humans can do much to change what is written. We are dealing with a much higher intelligence that seems to have figured it all out! (for better or for worse, I might add... )

But that is a philosophical question that greater minds than mine have wrestled with for centuries...

Ah, Sir Peter, don't be bashful!! ...

I therefore took the Moon's house (5th) to indicate northwest, according to Lilly. Unfortunately I ignored the Moon's sign.

So you got North from the Moon's house position (5th) and East from the Moon's sign Aries, right? (....ok I admit - sometimes I can be terribly slow...)

Actually I didn't get east at all, I got northwest, by virtue of the fact that the 5th house is between the 4th (north) and the 7th (west).
The girl's body was found to the northeast of her home, which suggests to me that the guiding parameters in the chart were the Moon's sign (Aries=East) and its hemisphere (below the horizon is the 'northern' hemisphere). What I did was, I bisected the hemisphere and added a westerley influence due to the Moon's house position, and this turned out to be superfluous ultimately.

I don't mean to take up too much of your time (ever the polite Taurus7 that I am....) but what could have been some of the indications in this girl's natal chart that could have indicated that something like this may happen?

Oh blimey T! I'm sorry but I'm not even going to suggest what this girl's chart may have been like because some people can be quite suggestible and the merest hint that a so-called "death indicator" might be present in their chart and we'll have a panic on our hands!

In my religion, we strongly believe that everyone has a set time in this world. While astrology can predict, I don't think us humans can do much to change what is written. We are dealing with a much higher intelligence that seems to have figured it all out! (for better or for worse, I might add... )

I pretty much agree with that. I strongly believe in the concept of karma, in it's definition as that which has been set into motion and cannot be altered. All one can do is alter one's perspective on what happens. Of course, in this case, this presupposes an afterlife where the girl's soul is able to reflect upon the reasons why she had to undergo the experience.

Ah, Sir Peter, don't be bashful!!

Ok, so which one of the Seven Dwarfs would you have me be?
===
Pete

Oh blimey T! I'm sorry but I'm not even going to suggest what this girl's chart may have been like because some people can be quite suggestible and the merest hint that a so-called "death indicator" might be present in their chart and we'll have a panic on our hands!

I understand and agree - in fact, you must have read my mind. That's exactly what I was going to do; rush to my chart and check for all evils...

I pretty much agree with that. I strongly believe in the concept of karma, in it's definition as that which has been set into motion and cannot be altered. All one can do is alter one's perspective on what happens. Of course, in this case, this presupposes an afterlife where the girl's soul is able to reflect upon the reasons why she had to undergo the experience.

I actually saw a picture of the girl last time I went to Toronto and they were still searching for her. Very pretty young girl, it's a tragedy, what happened.

Pete, thank you for your patience and your time.
- Taurus7 -

Pete, thank you for your patience and your time.

Always a pleasure, Ms T
==
Pete

Hi Deb,

The accused is an attractive man, white, 31 years old, fit looking. He has black hair and was clean shaven when arrested. I have no idea exactly how tall he is, but he appears of average or better height (in other words, he's definitely not short). His father, who passed away six years ago, was an author and apparently well known.

He has appeared once in court so far, and according to reporters, he kept his gaze fixed straight ahead. He did the same when being escorted away from his home by police, although one description indicated that he appeared nervous.

The police had been searching in two places for Alicia's remains, the first one I mentioned before, the second one is a futher 40 KM northeast. I believe her remains were split between the two sites, according to what was reported.

I don't know much else at this point, although I'm sure there'll be more information on the news tonight. I will pass along what I hear.

A bit more information...

The second location that was being searched was near the family cottage of the accused neighbour.

The accused lived at home with his mother. He apparently didn't work. The neighbours would see him in an upstairs window at night working on his computer. He also had a home gym that he liked to work out in.

Nothing was revealed as to how or why he committed the crime. His next court appearance is October 26. I don't believe any more information will be forthcoming until the trial begins.

The boyfriend, who has not spoken publicly, will speak with the media in a few days. His father believes the media and police should make public apologies to his son. One local newspaper did that yesterday, taking a full page to express their apologies for damaging his reputation.

Deb said:

There were some notes I made that I didn?t publish, for example relating to the manner of death, which I thought would be harrowing and unnecessary since they were speculative. Of course, only post what you feel is appropriate ? we don?t need to dwell on anything that would be disrespectful to Alicia or those who knew her.

and Saturnalias said:

The police had been searching in two places for Alicia's remains, the first one I mentioned before, the second one is a futher 40 KM northeast. I believe her remains were split between the two sites, according to what was reported.

So I was wondering if Deb would be willing to elaborate on her notes, since Saturnalias mentions what she does.

Thank you.

Hi Taurus7

There were a few notes (or rather questions to myself) that I made concerning the position Graffias (aka Acrab) on the ascendant. I am wary of placing too much emphasis on fixed stars - I know there is the argument that if we use them too liberally signs of disaster crop up all over the place - however this can be an extremely destructive star; it is close to the ascendant both by longitude and latitude and all the criteria is met for it to express its most destructive influence (see what I wrote on p.1). So it struck me as especially significant in showing destruction of the physical body.

I suppose we can conclude that because the body was recovered in two locations this was the case and this explains the symbolism of the star. But I was wondering whether death or at least consciousness might have been lost by a blow to the head - partly because this star is the head of the Scorpion, and because the Moon (8th-ruler) is in Aries. I also considered Lilly?s technique for identifying moles or scars on the body as a means to identify where the body was damaged. I?m not really comfortable making public speculations on these sorts of details; especially since we?re unlikely to get confirmation. I?m not sure of the benefit of it, but Lilly?s technique regarding marks on the body is generally quite reliable.

Deb