Chart A:

There seems to be one major combination involving Mercury/Mars/Jupiter/Sun

MERCURY/MARS/JUPITER/SUN

Mercury

Mercury is one of the important planet in the chart since it holds rulership over many vital places: (Ascendant Ruler, MC Ruler, POF Ruler, MC Bound Ruler, Moon Bound Ruler). With such authority, the performance of Mercury is vital.

Mercury is given adequate power by its placement in the angle of the 7th. This pulls the chart energies to 7th house affairs: relationships, partnerships, open enemies, legal disputes, etc.

Now Mercury has two big problems:
1. Mercury's best function is reasoning and logical analysis. In Pisces it is in detriment and fall. It can't reason out properly. Mercury is placed in the bound of Jupiter/Pisces, which adds themes of compassion and forgiveness to it.
Ruler of 1st in 7th introduces dependence on others.
2. Mercury is going into the Sun.
Mercury's time is short, soon it will be conjunct Sun. It needs to act fast.

Mercury has power to perform based on angularity, but it needs help. It is not connected to it's ruler Jupiter. In comes Mars.

Mars

Whether Mercury likes it or not, it has to deal with Mars. They are partile conjunct. Mars out-of-sect malefic is likely to cause mischief. Mars is just coming out from Sun's conjunction.

What does Mars in Pisces brings in? Mars will not be at it's best in Pisces, it adds in theme of sacrifice and martyrdom.

So delineating the Mars/Mercury conjunction in Pisces in the bound of Jupiter would be: restless indecision, confusion, jokestar, sacrifice, compassion, martyrdom, forgiveness. They are partners in crime.
This conjunction occurs in 10th from POF, that adds additional importance.

Mars could indicate a sibling is involved since it is a natural significator of siblings and it rules 3rd.

Mercury/Mars would need help from Jupiter - their sign and bound ruler.

Jupiter

Jupiter is in the sign and bound of Mars. This brings in a powerful generosity between Jupiter and Mars. Both Jupiter and Mars are in each other's sign and bound. So Mercury needing help is put with Mars, Mars connects to Jupiter with generosity. It is powerful combo.

Jupiter in Aries in the bound of Mars: This brings in expansiveness, aggression and military themes.
Jupiter should do good to the native, since it is placed 11th from POF. Jupiter ruler of 7th in 8th would bring in money due to partnerships.

Sun

The Sun is pulled into this combination since it is placed in Pisces and Mercury applies to it. It is not in a good shape. It is placed in the bound of Mercury and it is peregrine.

Sun should be a source of trouble for the native, since it rules the 12th. Ruler of 12th in 7th brings in themes of enemies into the mix. Mercury applying to Sun is now like I am going to meet up with my secret enemies (12th)and fight with them openly (7th)

Now mixing Mercury/Mars/Jupiter/Sun: it would would indicate someone forming partnerships for a fight/war/disputes with martyrdom, compassion, sacrificial themes and add in confusion.
Maybe killings too, with ruler of 8th and Mars involved.

The firdaria of Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Sun and the sub-periods involving their combination should indicate these themes.

The other important factor would be related to Venus trining Moon

VENUS/MOON

Venus

Venus is in highly good zodiacal state.

Ruler of 7th in 8th being Jupiter. Venus exaltation ruler of 7th in good state. Both Venus and Jupiter visible in the evening sky. This could indicate a good wealthy spouse and money from marriage. Ruler of 7th in 9th would indicate meeting the spouse due to 9th house affairs.

Venus in Taurus in 9th could indicate land/properties abroad.
Venus in Taurus can also indicate over-eating and putting on weight.

Moon

The Moon in detriment and conjunct SN in 5th is not in a good shape. This would indicate problems for wife or mother and 5th house issues - children.

Moon's saving grace is a trine to Venus. Moon transfers Venus significations to Mercury/Mars.

SATURN

With all the drama happening in the chart. Saturn looks isolated.

Saturn is in good zodiacal condition but poorly placed. It is oriental and very strong being in it's own sign and bound. It is the bound ruler of POF and is placed in the 6th trining it.

This could indicate 2 things.
1. Either the native at some point of time (Saturn firdaria??) was a workaholic and studying and learning scientific or historical subjects and earning an income from it.
2. Or, this indicates the native's slaves who help him by working hard and mining out information. Saturn would indicate elderly people.

Chart B: Need more time, maybe tomorrow

female chart 2

mark - thanks for giving us 2 charts here!

doesn't the jupiter/saturn conjunction have something to do with kings and queens and the transition of the old with the new on a political level? the sun is in a sandwich with these 2 planets and makes me wonder about some career of leadership politically. venus is pivotal here though, ruling these same planets and in conjunction with the midheaven in a clash with it's ruler mars over in the 8th.. it is possible this lady is the head of some fashion type company, or a business that is being run successfully. she looks like a take charge type of person with this venus/mars square and moon on the angles using the part of fortune as ascendant as well. i suppose a career in acting is also a possibility, but i am thinking more business leader, rightly or wrongly.. the sun is ruler of the 8th while mars is positioned in the 8th and in the dominant 'overcoming' square to venus on the midheaven. lady on a war path for some higher social cause is also a possibility.. i think she is very successful at whatever she does with capricorn rising and saturn in its elevated position next to the sun here..

Chart A: I'm tempted to say another athlete here, but I think you chose that, Mark, to throw us off the scent! Definitely a public media person with Mercury in the 7th along with Mars & the Sun, but the Sun's lordship of the 12th along with having Mercury & Mars under the beams and Mercury being in its depression, he must have had serious legal troubles & imprisonment.

Chart B: With none of the professional planets angular and the Sun conjoined with Saturn & Jupiter, I'm thinking this is a woman who was born into wealth and doesn't have to work. Perhaps some artistic work with Venus near the degree of the MC but this is more in the manner of the fine art world where wealth & class are the determining factors rather than innate talent.

For those that find it helpful here are both charts with outer planets displayed. To save space/time I am just displaying them in tropical zodiac here. Both charts are displayed this time in the Equal house system.

Chart A
Zodiac: Tropical
House System: Equal
Gender: Male

Chart B
Zodiac: Tropical
House System: Equal
Gender: Female
Mark

male chart 1
definite terrorist potential and strong independent streak given the pluto/uranus rising and in direct opposition to the pisces planets, mars in particular..

female chart 2
uranus so close to the midheaven/venus suggests more humanitarian type of expression combined with the moon in aquarius which i am not sure that i suggested very much in my first post on her.. there is a bit of a clash with the sun aligned to saturn, while the moon and uranus on the midheaven want to move in a more independent and potentially unorthodox direction.. saturn and uranus are in hard aspect here - 45. often times a person picks one and tries to throw off the other.. given that it is the chart of a women, i would tend to think she might side more strongly with her moon then her sun, so i will be especially interested to know how she has bridged those differences. uranus on the midheaven can be marked by sudden strong rises and falls career wise.. i wonder if and how that has played out in her life as well..

edit - one last thing on chart 2.. i have been saying i think the 8th sign and house have something to say on sexuality.. here is where this chart can prove me wrong, lol.. i was thinking over the fact the venus/mars square is the sexual combo in conflict and with uranus added to the mix while on the midheaven this person could be known for something to do with her sexuality.. the beautiful thing about peoples sexual preferences is we don't usually get to know much about it! cap rising with sun/saturn square the ascendant sounds positively conservative, but this other mix is just the opposite!!!

edit

Chart B

Have to say the 3 house systems on Chart B, has rather thrown me a bit.

The main theme in Chart B, to me, is the extremely powerful Saturnian nature of this woman. Reminds me of a Maggie Thatcher or a Hillary Clinton, although I know it is not their chart.

Saturn is Exalted, the Asc Ruler, 1, 2nd and 12th hse ruler (depending upon which house system) and deposits and Trines the Moon. In addition Saturn conjunction the Sun, pretty much takes over the personality and drive. Saturn drives the Sun and Moon, pretty much the whole person. Very disciplined with a strong work ethic.

I believe this person displays much more of a Saturnian nature than a Libran nature. Very aware of status and power and wants both and most probably HAS POWER, STATUS and PRESTIGE, these are big motivators for her.

She probably appears to be very cold and aloof, to those who do not know her well, and she can most definitely be very sharp tongued. Venus in detriment in Scorpio ruling the 10th, is not going to be a very polite Venus, but rather sharp and make those who work for her to toe the line, and anyone who gets in her way probably will regret it! She is big on a sense of responsibility, from herself and demands it of others. She works hard and expects all others to do so also.

I would say this is a powerful woman, who wields, her power with a big stick. She has very good sense of concentration, investigative, executive and mathematical abilities.

A judge would be one profession, an Executive / President of a Corporation, she could delve deep into the mysteries of the psyche, a Psychologist. I will stop there as there are a ton of professions she could have.

edit

Hello zoomaster,

I am not fully convinced of the theory of combustion. Saturn is exalted ruler of Libra, conjunct the. sun. Too many repeated, emphasized indications to me of A very strong Saturnian nature, to be ignored in my opinion. Also gives her a sense of responsibility to others. I believe she is the serious type of person.

Seeing the three house systems displayed, rather made it more difficult for me to pin down a judgement regarding the native. Depending on which chart I choose, my interpretation would be very different, regarding where the energy of the chart would be focused, area of life affected and how intense, successful, and or benefic or malefic this person might be. In the Alcabitius system, the sun/Saturn conjunction is in the eighth. Mars angular, which may give an indication of her enemies, being responsible for putting her in jail, as Saturn also rules the 12th in the Alcabitius system.

So you see, it has muddied the waters for me, in my interpretation, based on which house system to use, to me, very different judgements, EXCEPT for the strong Saturnian nature, regardless of what house system one uses.

We will see, how this plays out. Thanks for the comments.

Graham F wrote:Just a quickie attempt for chart A, not so much time this weekend.
Sidereal, WSH. I'm going to go for someone whose occupation takes them abroad a lot, either lots of long trips or residence abroad (4 planets including Sun R1 in 7; trine aspect of NN on 7; trine of SN on Asc; Venus R10 in 9). I think this man might have a religious occupation, a spiritual teacher or priest: R10 in 9 (faith, spirituality), Moon in 5 (spiritual activities, and rites) with SN (renunciation, spirituality) which also aspects Ascendant. Saturn, Mars, Mercury and Sun all opposite Asc in 7, Mercury and Mars combust. Alhough Mars is benefic for Cancer Asc, Saturn and Mars in 7 will probably compromise partnerships - marital or professional, so could be single, or unsuccessful in marriage and/or working alone or not really in a team. Mars closely opposes Asc and more loosely squares MC/10, and Saturn closely aspects Venus R10 by sextile: both energy and also discipline/determination in career, which could be in 9th house area like religion (Mercury and Moon look a bit compromised for philosophy; could be an artist or musician but I wouldn't think a very succesful one, too much exile and renunciation in the chart). Jupiter R5 and 8 in 8 may give interest in occult side of spirituality.
Graham

The outers definitely change things a bit (especially Pluto and Uranus on Ascendant, also Neptune trine Sun). I'll stick with my "man of religion", but he now becomes a fanatic - ruthless sect leader maybe, as some have said, with criminal or terrorist elements, or at least criminal terrorist with strong religous interest and convictionscriminal/terrorist . Examples: Charles Manson, Jim Jones, L. Ron Hubbard, Ben Laden (but we never get birth times for the Jihadists, so it probably can't be one of those - a western extremist more likely).

Sidereally, Chart B is very interesting as it has the MC in whole sign house 12. So we have to decide which:
a) Venus on MC closely aspected (trine) by NN, or
b) Jupiter/Sun/Saturn combination in WS 10 (near "sensitive point", i.e squaring asc) could give indications of career or maybe of her general aspirations, style and manner/approach.
I think I'll go for the occupation she's ended up in as being Ju/Su/Sa: Jupiter is R1 (preferentially), Saturn of 3 (it's positive sign Aq) and Sun of 9. And the style she projects in that occupation as Venusian, hardened and exacerbated by the aspect fo NN. A forceful but rather glamorous (or would-be glamorous) politician stateswoman, careful about clothes and image, maybe a top judge or religious leader, but can't think of many Venusian types. What comes to mind is a leader like Eva Peron or Benazir Bhutto. Only current one I can think of is Christina Kirchner, but I'd say she doesn't have the stature this chart indicates (Sun, Jupiter and Saturn in 10).
Another interesting thing about B is Venus and Mercury are well away from Sun, so strong: Mercury 18? distant in 11 (could be high earnings from occupation), and Venus over 44? which is nearly at the 45? point where it's supposed to become overpowering, as well as being on the MC. It's true it's in WS 12 and in detriment if that is valid, but I'd say the angular and phase strengths, and the aspect from NN definitely outweigh any weaknesses.

Again, outers change the picture somewhat (Pluto in 10 with Sun and Jupiter, Uranus in 12 with MC and Venus (Neptune will also be in 12 in she was born after about 1925, if before it will be in 1). I'll stay with my stateswoman/leader, but add that she's probably ruthless and came to a sticky end (scandal, disgrace or assassination maybe).
Graham

Hello Mark,

As some were confused by the many house systems and many don't use Equal Houses, I hope you don't mind if I post these charts using Topocentric Houses and including the outer planets...additionally, I find the aspect lines to be very helpful...

After just a cursory look...

Chart A appears an emotionally sensitive, but revolutionary politician or businessman of some sort.

Chart B appears to be an attractive or popular person with some social service thrust and likely extreme aesthetic talents in art or music. Chart B has a double-dose of "do my own thing."

James


Chart A _____________________________________________________________

Chart B

Morning Sun wrote:

So you see, it has muddied the waters for me, in my interpretation, based on which house system to use, to me, very different judgements, EXCEPT for the strong Saturnian nature, regardless of what house system one uses.

I'm sorry that clearly wasn't my intention. Usually, we get feedback that people want another house system displayed! That must be the first occasion I have seen a complaint that too many house systems were displayed!

I dont see the problem. If you know which house system you prefer you use that in your delineation ie quadrant, whole sign or equal. Simple! I actually hadn't intended to display the charts with the outers in Equal. Its just I had left that setting on after doing them sidereally for Graham F that way. After having created the charts I wasn't going to spend time redoing them. The house system above is irrelevant. I am just displaying the outers.

I cant help thinking your difficulty is part of a deeper dilemma about house systems in general and is less related to this exercise. If that is the case you will find things sparking off doubts everywhere you look. I do know the feeling. I went through the same process a few years ago when I shifted away from Placidus to Whole Sign Houses. Its a bit like losing your faith. All the old certainties go out the window and you find yourself weighing up every chart you see in different systems. It can be quite bewildering.

Whatever, system we select I think you need to stick with it for a good long while to get a feel for it. Otherwise we end up like an astrological butterfly.

Mark