Hi James,

I thought your determination was right on on several points, particularly your first sentence!!!

To me, the different house systems for Chart 2, makes a huge difference. Both of my judgements are based on different house systems, to me there is a huge difference depending on which one you choose, as to the judgement. That was mt dilemma in the chart B. When I did Chart A , there was just the Alcabitius up.

Graham, I agree with you, sometimes the more you deliberate the more options as to how a chart will manifest in that persons life!!

Mark,

Can you post the info for chart B?? Thanks!

hi morning sun,
i also mentioned the moon and saturn in chart A giving good organizational abilities but i did not focus on the moon as being in the 4th - i think of it as more 5th myself.. i did note saturn and jupiter having access(ptolemaic aspect by sign) to the midheaven, but didn't comment on that.. here is an interesting thought that you will get a kick out of! - the moon is overcoming jupiter in chart A, while jupiter rules all those planets in pisces in the 7th.. is this a good example of the moon, or a persons mother or past having greater influence over the chart then it might otherwise have due this idea of '''overcoming'''?

i don't really see how you have brought the 10th into your comments, other then to make a general comment on what house is connected to the mother and continue to emphasize the ideas of duty and organization which are in the moon and saturn position.. i suppose this is why you think the moon is in the 4th house more then the 5th.. what about the idea that he is involved in politics with venus very strong in the whole sign house 9? obviously we are using a different approach to houses, but i compliment you on making a bigger deal of this moon in cap, which you think is in the 4th!

i liked your comments on western hemisphere emphasis which is something i always consider too - the idea of serving others being a natural fit for a western hemisphere chart..

my own impression is that trying to pin everything on a house system is a bad idea, but that is just my 2c's and not something that is going to contribute much to understanding chart A better!

MorningSun wrote: The Moon in the 4th, in Capricorn, I believe represents his Mother. I would say she gave the native a very strong sense of duty and obligation to others. This theme is further enhanced or made stronger by a strong Saturn in the 6th house of duty and obligation in its domicile of Aquarius, also a very humanitarian sign, willing to advocate for others, And VERY STRONGLY SO. Since the 10th is the house of the Mother, her staunch teaching of duty and obligation could have translated to a career, ruled by Mercury in the 7th house of others conjunct Mars and the Sun.

james_m wrote:hi morning sun,
i also mentioned the moon and saturn in chart A giving good organizational abilities but i did not focus on the moon as being in the 4th - i think of it as more 5th myself.. i did note saturn and jupiter having access(ptolemaic aspect by sign) to the midheaven, but didn't comment on that.. here is an interesting thought that you will get a kick out of! - the moon is overcoming jupiter in chart A, while jupiter rules all those planets in pisces in the 7th.. is this a good example of the moon, or a persons mother or past having greater influence over the chart then it might otherwise have due this idea of '''overcoming'''?

i don't really see how you have brought the 10th into your comments, other then to make a general comment on what house is connected to the mother and continue to emphasize the ideas of duty and organization which are in the moon and saturn position.. i suppose this is why you think the moon is in the 4th house more then the 5th.. what about the idea that he is involved in politics with venus very strong in the whole sign house 9? obviously we are using a different approach to houses, but i compliment you on making a bigger deal of this moon in cap, which you think is in the 4th!

i liked your comments on western hemisphere emphasis which is something i always consider too - the idea of serving others being a natural fit for a western hemisphere chart..

my own impression is that trying to pin everything on a house system is a bad idea, but that is just my 2c's and not something that is going to contribute much to understanding chart A better!

MorningSun wrote: The Moon in the 4th, in Capricorn, I believe represents his Mother. I would say she gave the native a very strong sense of duty and obligation to others. This theme is further enhanced or made stronger by a strong Saturn in the 6th house of duty and obligation in its domicile of Aquarius, also a very humanitarian sign, willing to advocate for others, And VERY STRONGLY SO. Since the 10th is the house of the Mother, her staunch teaching of duty and obligation could have translated to a career, ruled by Mercury in the 7th house of others conjunct Mars and the Sun.

Hi James,

Well to me, that is what I have been saying for many posts now, regarding the different house systems, and what a BIG difference it makes in my interpreting a chart. Because that is what I rely on for specifics, angularity, strength, etc, how it affects the person and who and what affects them. Without that I can only generalize about the persons life and areas of their life.

I guess as much as you and others cannot see my point and emphasis on houses, I am equally amazed that anyone can make a good interpretation without a good house system!! But no one seems to feel the same. It does tremendously affect my determinations, to me it is not different than having a bad time of birth, that is how much it changes the chart in my opinion.

Regarding the Moon, yes I definitely read it as 4th house, again, an example similar to that Jupiter Ile's chart. The difference in a reading. A 4th house moon in Capricorn is going to give a Mother that taught discipline, rather harsh, big on duty, obligation and service. That the ruler Saturn was in the 6th house of duty, obligation and service to others, was putting the two together. As the Moon was angular, this leads me to know his Mother was a huge influence in his life. I added, as an afterthought, thinking that the Mother exhibited a large influence, that she may have been instrumental even to the degree of choosing his profession. As in other charts I see an angular or accidentally strong moon in how much their Mothers affected their lives, really quite alot for some people!

This is what I meant about being able to coax the finer details out of a chart, of having an accurate time of birth and a good house system. I fail to see how one can do it without that. There has to be a line of demarcation of what the significators in a persons life is. Much like I mentioned that If that Jupiter was supposed to be in teh 7th it would have been, If God or fate or the universe wanted her to have good marriage it would have been in the 7th and not the 6th. .

I know alot disagree, but same as with this Chart A and B mystery chart. The house systems to be makes a HUGE difference in determination and judgement. For chart B, I have two very different readings based on 1) a mix of two house systems and 2) the Alcabitius house system. A HUGE difference in the person. And to me that is what makes the difference! I have to be able to tell which planets are angular, etc.

Regarding the hemispheres of the chart, that was the first basic astrology I learned.

mark - delete my comments if you think they detract from the thread.

thanks for the additional comments morning sun!

you keep on coming back to the 4th house, the moon and angularity - all important considerations which i think every astrologer would agree on, but i see no mention of sagitarrius on the 4th house cusp as having some bearing on any of this! okay - quadrant house system will give the moon in the 4th house, but it doesn't share the same sign as the actual i.c. - 4th house cusp.. how do you factor this, if at all - in any of your views here?

Graham F wrote:

Just to say that I thought both Paul's and Morning Sun's analyses of chart A (on p.1) were quite impressive, close on a number of points (not just the mother influence, for MorningSun). Paul's suggestions of someone who stands up for the underdog and causes, makes a noise, needs to be heard, public figure, who brought problems on himself seems quite accurate.

Yes I very much agree. There were lots of great posts here but those two contributions stand out for me. I feel they really picked up the essence of Sheridan.

I have been very busy this week so had less time than I planned to update the thread. However, I will be revealing the identity of chart B early on Thursday evening.

Mark

Hi James,

The Moon is in Capricorn, not Sagittarius. I was reading the influence of the Mother., due to the angularity of the moon.

I was not reading about the status of his home, property, or family lineage, if so, I would take then take Jupiter. If so, I would say he has quite a large house, but would be at risk of losing it, due to financial problems, caused by Mars disputes with others, causing financial strain and huge expenses. So many layers to a reading.

James, yes, I thought you were right on with the organizational abilities, and quite alot of what you said!!

Thanks for the update Mark, I think I vaguely remember this politician's name with regards his being charged with perjury. I think James_M mentioned about a criminal element to the chart and obviously this seems to be appropriate to this nativity.

I look forward to discovering more about Chart B. In some ways I'm more intrigued by it than I am Chart A. I think in a lot of ways Chart A, having more 'obvious' factors to the chart (difficult aspects, angularity etc) was easier to determine (imo).

I suspect I will not do so well with Chart B so it will probably offer me more insight to learn from and to go back through other people's answers to try to figure out the approach other people take with it.
The more I look at chart B the more I think that the native is involved in something earthy and possibly venusian. I am torn between whether it is a performance related career like music/model/actress or whether it is more about business and earthly in terms of finance and material concerns. I tend to mix traditional and modern methods, and I focus a lot on elements when I interpret charts. The lack of earth with earth rising, and then venusian elements so strong in the chart (quadrant angular venus, then three planets at the whole sign angle ruled by venus) there may be a sense of monetary concern with the native. But I also suspect something bodily about the native, either using the body as an asset and/or having some problem with body image. I suspect both may be involved.

I look forward to finding out more as it will help me hone down my techniques I think. I see most people opted more for lawyer or statesperson types though so I may well be very wrong on this.

Atlantean wrote:Hello Mark,

As some were confused by the many house systems and many don't use Equal Houses, I hope you don't mind if I post these charts using Topocentric Houses and including the outer planets...additionally, I find the aspect lines to be very helpful...

After just a cursory look...

Chart A appears an emotionally sensitive, but revolutionary politician or businessman of some sort.

Atlantean

I wonder if you could share what you focused on in particular to arrive at this conclusion? It can be useful to go back over all the posts and walk through the interpretations from other people's shoes to see their approaches and methods and try to learn from it.

Paul wrote:Thanks for the update Mark, I think I vaguely remember this politician's name with regards his being charged with perjury. I think James_M mentioned about a criminal element to the chart and obviously this seems to be appropriate to this nativity.
I look forward to discovering more about Chart B. In some ways I'm more intrigued by it than I am Chart A. I think in a lot of ways Chart A, having more 'obvious' factors to the chart (difficult aspects, angularity etc) was easier to determine (imo).

I suspect I will not do so well with Chart B so it will probably offer me more insight to learn from and to go back through other people's answers to try to figure out the approach other people take with it.
The more I look at chart B the more I think that the native is involved in something earthy and possibly venusian. I am torn between whether it is a performance related career like music/model/actress or whether it is more about business and earthly in terms of finance and material concerns. I tend to mix traditional and modern methods, and I focus a lot on elements when I interpret charts. The lack of earth with earth rising, and then venusian elements so strong in the chart (quadrant angular venus, then three planets at the whole sign angle ruled by venus) there may be a sense of monetary concern with the native. But I also suspect something bodily about the native, either using the body as an asset and/or having some problem with body image. I suspect both may be involved.

I look forward to finding out more as it will help me hone down my techniques I think. I see most people opted more for lawyer or statesperson types though so I may well be very wrong on this.

Paul,

I totally agree with what you said of James m comment on the Criminal Element. I thought that was right on, I think he was right on in his determination.

I also agree that Chart B is much more challenging! I also look forward to finding out who she is and looking back at the charts and everyones judgement, it does help to hone's one abilities alot and different perspectives.

Chart B, MC lord in 8th ,8th lord in 10th. Looks like someone involved in crime,embezzlment, black magic,Venus in Scorpio in MC only adds to the mysterious character.Somene dark but in a sensual way
SN rising also increases the evil side of the person

update: judging from her capricornian face it could also be singer Kate Earl,who is A libra born around that date,but her birthtime isnt in ADB
She fits the ups and downs shown by Uranus

Damon may have let the cat out of the bag here.
On Wiki it says Kate Earl was born in 1983, in Alaska (no day or month given). Maybe that's what Damon means by "that date". I'd noticed that with MC in WS 12th, she must have been born quite far north, or south.
Maybe she lied about her age, and there's some new info out there, because I checked the planet transits on SF and the line up happened on 8 October 1981.
Graham

Correction: it was on AllMusic that 1983 is given. Wiki gives no date. But another site says

Kate Earl, born Kate Joy Smithson, October 8, 1981 ?Katie? to Charles and Pomposa Smithson in Chugiak, Alaska

So it must be her, but from the photos I don't see the "Capricornian face".
It seems the Venus on MC (and NN closely aspecting both) is more indicative of line of career than Jupiter and Sun in WS 10 (though Jupiter R1 sidereal in 10, square Asc, with Sun, could gelp with the public prominence and fame). That's what I wanted to know about this chart - it's useful to have one with MC so far from WS 10, as a test.
Graham