astro.com delineation. Koch house system

As for the questions, following Stellarium's scheme:

The Questions:

Occupation

1. What was this man's occuption?

a) Surgeon.
b) Police Officer.
c) Priest.
d) Voyager.
e) Journalist.

Fame/Eminence

2. Was he famous?

a) No.
b) Only briefly.
c) He was a legend in his own lifetime.
d) Yes, for the manner of his death.
e) Only posthumously unrelated to the manner of his death.

Marriage and Children

3. What best describes this man's marital status?

a) Never married and rarely if ever dated.
b) Happily married for life.

4. Did he have children?

a) No.
b) Yes, only one.
c) Yes, two to four.
d) Yes, five or more.

Health, Longevity and Manner of Death

5. Which of the following best describes his health status?

a) Very healthy and fit all his life.
b) Sickly and frequently ill for most of his life.


6. Which best describes this man's longevity (for the era and economic status of the country in which he lived)?

a) premature death (as a young adult or in middle age).
b) about average (55 - 69).
c) above average (70 - 84).
d) exceptional longevity (85+).

7. Did he die violently?

a) Yes.
b) No.

Let's enjoy it.

violalauraciao

Love the multichoice reminds me of school

1. What was this man's occuption?
d) Voyager.

2. Was he famous?
a) No.

3. What best describes this man's marital status?
a) Never married and rarely if ever dated.

4. Did he have children?
Idk

5. Which of the following best describes his health status?
b) Sickly and frequently ill for most of his life.

6. Which best describes this man's longevity (for the era and economic status of the country in which he lived)?
Idk

7. Did he die violently?
Idk, but I'll boost the probability his death added to "fame" or "noteworthiness"

Thank you Ariondis, for joining in.

Maybe you could spare a little time in telling us on the basis of what astrological data you came to your conclusions. I think that would make it more interesting and good for others to confront their own considerations.

Let's give others a chance.

violaciao

With the ninth house prominent my first thought was a religious native and difficulties between mars and venus because of saturn suggest someone who never married so priest looks likely

Triplicity rulers of the sun are not angular so generally not a fortunate subject. Jupiter is close to asc but retrograde and not in sign of asc so I will count it as twelfth house so a bad old age unless a direction of saturn killed him young. The seventh house can also point to foreign lands and with mars there if early death occured perhaps it happened overseas.

Will study a little more and expand.

Matthew

Some of the considerations are real hits

v

Further taking the lot of marriage from Saturn to Venus and projecting from asc I find it in house 12. Book of Aristotle p 139 reads "Lot of Marriage Contract in the 6th or 12th they wholly prevent the joy of nuptials" Masha Allah is unequivocal there.

In the matter of eminence we see L1 Mars and L10 Sun in aversion in adjacent signs so no greatness indicated by that testimony.

Venus in the 9th points to good in ninth house matters but she is close to Saturn in exile. This might prevent venus acting well here. Perhaps Saturn might also cause some mental anguish or even illness. Venus is in the exaltation of Jupiter who has some dignity but the position of Saturn again would compromise that so the religious impulse is not an easy one. I would say Venus is Lord of Geniture hence the importance I attach to it. Temperament phlegmatic due to asc and moon sign.

Matt

quotation from Persian Nativities Vol 1 trans Ben Dykes

Thank for updating, Mjacob.

I think I shall give others a chance and will post natal data on 29th.

viola

viola magmar wrote:Thank you Ariondys, for joining in.
Maybe you could spare a little time in telling us on the basis of what astrological data you came to your conclusions. I think that would make it more interesting and good for others to confront their own considerations.

I am incapable of restricting myself to thinking Traditional Techniques. Since we are restricted from discussing modern techniques, I thought it would make my effort easier to say nothing. And keep the traditional area of the forum from being infected by me.

I really didn't spend much time. Just a look from Astrolog without dissecting with other programs.

OK. This will take a tiny bit of research...

Career:
Now I know perfectly well the hypothetical TNP on the midheaven is modern. I spend little effort filtering careers. And just went with the assumption I might consider the most elevated thing as an excellent career indicator. This has worked well out to Uranus at least... it might be a weak assumption to use whatever I want as 'most elevated' I have read Uranus should have been visible in the ancient sky to the naked eye(I guess it was never actually spotted though). A few charts with Neptune & Pluto as 'most elevated' could start to answer the question.

Fame:
http://www.falconastrology.com/aries_point.htm
http://www.noeltyl.com/techniques/010130.html
http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/aries_point
For considerations of Fame, I counted the density of midpoints making hard aspects to the Aries Point. I thought it looked particularly sparse.
I cannot seem to figure out how historical the Aries Point was. I'm betting it's use is old, but I can't track it past the Uranian Astrologers.
http://www.falconastrology.com/pdfs/Aries%20Point.pdf

For Robert Hand the Aries Point, which was
used by the Greeks and also in the beginnings of our modern
horoscopic astrology, is very subtle. ?It isn?t an energy supply like
a real planet but it is considered like the last one because it
forms aspects and it can be the focus for the combinations of
midpoints?. (Horoscope Symbols, Robert Hand)

Love:
http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologyt ... oints.html

The use of midpoints historically goes back to 1200 AD when Guido Bonati, a famous Italian Astrologer, used half sums, otherwise known as midpoints, in his interpretation of a chart. More recently at the turn of the century, Alan Leo, a famous American Astrologer, used midpoints along with solar arc directions.

Venus/Saturn = Midheaven
Hindrances and obstacles in love.
(Kind of a blind faith that we are being offered a well-timed chart)

Children:
other than the "fruitfulness" of the sign ruling the 5th, I couldn't offer anything.
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/signs.html#AA
Pisces: Very fecund and prolificall, being the House of Jupiter and exaltationof Venus, its Signe of many Children.
It's ruled by a poorly aspected Jupiter in the 12th though. And I don't really know if I can make a judgement from that. Without love, it seems to suggest the number of children will not be high.

Health:
I took the Mars Neptune conjunction and the fact that Mars has more than enough reasons to be unhappy, essential, accidental, aspectual and ruling the 1st and 6th.

Longevity:
Nothing comes to mind. Perhaps the South Node in the 4th could mean not excessive longevity. I don't know any techniques. If vitality is low and this seems to be supported by a poor health and poorly aspected Sun, I imagine it becomes harder to live long when Mars and Sun won't help.

Death:
Sorry I can't source this tidbit. I think it should be obvious though. I can remember reading somewhere years ago that Sun in the 8th house gave reknown after death or something along those lines. Violently? probably not, Mars is not in the 8th.

Ariondis,

thank you for all the valuable references you offered and the considerations on how you reached your conclusions.

TOB is officially correct.

Stars incline and Men... compel...

violalaura

While we await the denouement I have had second thoughts about dying overseas. With Mercury L8 in the eighth along with the part of death maybe he died in his home country after all though this does answer the question set as to the nature of death

Matt

I am incapable of restricting myself to thinking Traditional Techniques.

That may be, but the Forum guidelines state:

This particular forum exists to learn, apply, and exchange techniques and ideas regarding traditional and ancient astrology and astrologers.

Therefore, while Uranus, Neptune and Pluto may be OK, Trans-Neptunians and midpoints are not. Once again the purpose of the Traditional Forum was to provide a place to discuss traditional astrology. All other Forums on Skyscript can use modern and/or traditional techniques.

They mystery charts posted here are popular and probably would be as popular on other Forums where modern astrology is welcomed. Those who post here should expect, given the nature of this Forum, that the discussions would be limited to the traditional. Please follow that rule.

Hello, here data of the person to whom Mystery chart 2 is related:

name: world-renowned as Saint Padre Pio da Pietralcina

born on 25th of May 1887 at 16h11m in Lecce, Italy

died on 23rd of September 1968 at 02.30 in San Giovanni Rotondo

declaired Saint by Pope Giovanni Paolo II on 16th of June 2002

You can find lots of biographies on the web. I shall suggest a couple of indicative links, since he was also harshly inquisited by the Saint Uffizio, more than once:

http://caccioppoli.com/Close%20encounte ... 57%29.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pio_of_Pietrelcina

Thank you for joining. On the Traditional Astrology forum we could check various aspects to his midpoints.

I think you have been very clever!!!

violalauraciao