james_m wrote: if i was to break the quadrants of the chart down into temperament i would automatically think houses 12 to midheaven and i am going backward thru the circle here, or counter clockwise beginning at sunrise) would be sanguine, midheaven to descendant choleric, descendant to i.c. melancholic and i.c. to ascendant - phlegmatic. i don't know why i think this, but that is what i think at the moment. so if a particular quadrant was emphasized it might also have an impact on the ultimate temperament of the person.. it stands to reason, but these considerations haven't been included in anything i have read about temperament.. it all seems to focus on sign position while house position is given the short shrift, along with any talk of the sect of the chart!!

Hi James, again, I'm steeling myself to read the DB book, I have so many other books on the go at the moment! Those quadrant descriptions I have read elsewhere, too, but I can't remember. In my particular chart, therefore sanguine/phlegmatic dominate.

I'm quite sure as you say, and as Saturn girl attests - many (lucky?!) people have a blend of all four!

As Tyler mentioned earlier - maybe body type is the quickest 'check' of temperament? On the other hand I read that we don't grow into our body shape until middle age? I'm 36 so would've expected to have manifested the phlegmatic type if that were so by now? Are phlegmatics the only type to get middle aged spread? Maybe a melancholic who assuages their misery with naughty food could pile the weight on? And so it goes on....

I shall be back when I have read the book, I may be some time

hi saturn girl and meredith,

these are just idle speculations on my part and i wouldn't entertain them strongly enough to incorporate them! i mostly wanted to suggest that there are other important factors to a chart that don't seem to be taken into account when assessing temperament. one can ask what astrologers of the past did and go with what there method, or one can ask more questions which is essentially what i have done. the biggest one for me is the issue of sect and whether it might factor into temperament which i think it probably does. the emphasis on a particular quadrant might have impact on temperament as well, but the way i have assigned them was just quickly off the top of my head and i didn't give it a huge amount of thought!

here is another quick thought of the top of my head that i would be curious for feedback on as well. i am really fishing for a conversation from more knowledgeable members of the forum here which i very rarely get!
do these planets have any obvious association with these angles?
mars or the sun and ascendant?
the sun or saturn and the midheaven?
venus or saturn and the descendant?
the moon or jupiter and the i.c.?

if someone thinks they do, then perhaps a focus of planets near any of these angles might emphasize a particular temperament more strongly. obviously other factors would need to be weighed as well.

perhaps i need to read greenbaums book again. it seemed to me that she worked very hard to articulate what astrologers (primarily from the medieval era) process was for defining temperament. do we stop their, or open the door to other possible ways of defining it thru the chart?

James, later this week when I have time I plan to open a topic on temperament on the sidereal forum, and move some of my posts there that were pounced upon on this forum (last year sometime). Temperament is less complex in the sidereal, once the triplicities are straightened out. I'll be looking at some of the extreme cases in Greenbaum's book. I had posts written on a number of the charts, but was discouraged and didn't post them. Will have to dig them out of my files and ask my file genie for help finding them.

Therese

thanks therese. i look forward to that. james

James, I've opened a topic on the sidereal forum on Traditional Ideas and Temperament in the sidereal zodiac, and will be posting some of Greenbaum's charts. I hope we might have an interesting discussion that would include some of your suggestions. Of course we would welcome any one else who might have even a casual interest in sidereal astrology. The forum isn't the place for sidereal/tropical debates, however. The purpose of the new topic is to present the sidereal use of traditional concepts.

Hope to see you there!

Therese