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In how many months will this relationship start?

1 by Gemini Goddess
There is a man I met. He is a scorpio and I am a gemini.

It's been a slow start for both of us getting to know eachother as friends first.


We kissed once and went out on a date.


But I am afraid of getting hurt and I do not want to risk it anymore.

My question is: Will we ever be more than friends?

Question was asked at 10:22 PM Astoria, New York On October 12.






Ok now:



I got ASC=4Can45, so she is Moon and he is Sa. Sa and Moon are not in applaying aspect, but both go to aspect with Pl. Moon receives Pl by triplicity, and Saturn receives Pl by face. If we look Moon's aspect: first aspect is sextile with Pl (passion), than square to Ma rx(ruler of 11-friends) and finaly trine with Ju in 5H (romance).





I take it that this is a yes?






Ok now how can I tell in how long this relationship will start?




I'm so confused when it comes to the timing.


How do you guys do it? I experience to much mental strain with that.

2 by Sue
Obviously the first thing to ascertain in timing is whether the chart shows that the event will happen. To be honest, this chart does not give a clear indication that there is a relationship here. I would not use Pluto in this way in horary. The outer planets are used sparingly and only when they are in a prominent position in the chart. Even so, I don't see Saturn within orb of an aspect to Pluto. There is also no strong reception. The Moon is in the rulership of Saturn but that is about it. I haven't looked closely at this chart but I would say that it is a no.

Re:

3 by Gemini Goddess
The presence and direction of Pluto's energy are never obvious until it is used. Pluto's influence in any sign is interpreted as generational or historical. In your personal life, Pluto's significance is interpreted from its house position and the aspects it makes to other natal planets in your horoscope. Pluto rules intense energy, and describes the areas in which you consciously or subconsciously seek to exercise power or control. Pluto is also linked to your karmic responsibility.




Well I guess pluto ain't important anymore!


I give up. I will never be able to read charts ever.

4 by Sue
I don't disagree with anything you have said. However, this does not relate to horary. As you pointed out, Pluto is a generational planet. It moves so slowly that it is of little use in determining events of the immediate future. Saturn and Pluto can be in aspect for months. That won't tell us anything about an individual situation. There are times when the outer planets may be important in a horary chart, such as when they are directly on an angle or conjunct a primary significator. However, generally speaking, they shouldn't be used in situations such as the one you have described. This does not mean that Pluto is not important. It simply means that it is not appropriate to use it in horary.

None of this means that you cannot read a chart. If you go back and look at the chart without the outer planets you will get your answer.

5 by caninnc
Gemini Goddess,

When Fensii answered your question in the astrologyweekly.com forum, she used Pluto only as a collection of light for your "yes" answer.

The site she referred you to for your answer about Pluto mentions that Pluto isn't considered important but it does allow for a yes answer. Here's the description:
When the two main significators have already separated from each other but each applies by major aspect to a third planet, this third planet can act as a transmitter and collect their lights bringing them back into aspect again. Whether the planets apply by direct or retrograde motion to the transmitting planet is of no importance. Furthermore, the transmitting planet is able to collect more than one pair of significators provided they are within the moiety of orbs. Although the outer planets are never used as main significators they can act as collectors of light.

Although the three outer planets are never used as main significators, they can be involved in collections.
I think a "yes" is what you were looking for...

Now the timing is pretty straightforward... take your moon and see how many degrees apart the furthest aspect is (in your case it's Jupiter). Subtract the 2 numbers so Jupiter at 27.10 degrees and Moon at 20.30 degrees and you get 7ish... then find out if the moon is in an Angular (days), Succeedent (weeks) or Cadent (months) house... this link is a good source to get that figured out... http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1d.html

So your moon is in the 9th house which cadent so the timing is 7 months.

If I have this wrong, please let me know... I am just learning myself.

Take care,
Michele

6 by Sue
The site she referred you to for your answer about Pluto mentions that Pluto isn't considered important but it does allow for a yes answer.
Although the three outer planets are never used as main significators, they can be involved in collections.
This sounds like something Maurice McCann would say. I think he has written something to this effect. I personally would not use Pluto in collection unless it is very clear who or what Pluto is in this chart. Even then, using the outer planets in this way is very dubious. Lilly says that collection can occur when the two significators are in an aspect to a weightier planet. He also says that each planet should receive the third planet into some of its dignities. This is not possible with Pluto. Regardless of this, Saturn is not within orb of Pluto. There is more than 12? between them and Pluto is therefore unable to collect the light of Saturn. I'd probably want to have a think about why Uranus is conjunct the MC though.
Now the timing is pretty straightforward... take your moon and see how many degrees apart the furthest aspect is (in your case it's Jupiter). Subtract the 2 numbers so Jupiter at 27.10 degrees and Moon at 20.30 degrees and you get 7ish... then find out if the moon is in an Angular (days), Succeedent (weeks) or Cadent (months) house
I have not seen this before and it doesn't make sense to me. Jupiter is not a significator or even a particularly relevant player in this chart so I am not sure how it can be involved in timing. Timing is usually determined by the contact between the significators and the timing of their perfection.

8 by Sue
Hi Michele,

I guess it is a matter of choice as far as Pluto is concerned. Obviously Lilly didn't use it because it wasn't discovered. We have no real way of knowing whether he would have used it had he known. However, as I mentioned before, the outer planets have no rulerships in traditional astrology, which makes such things as reception difficult. I haven't used the outer planets in collection but Maurice McCann swears by it.

As far as timing is concerned, this can be quite tricky and it takes some experience to get it right. It is not something I do on a regular basis. There is also a number of methods that have been advocated. If you haven't already, you might like to read John Frawley's article on this site. The link is posted below.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/timing.html

There always seems like so much to know in the beginning that it can be overwhelming. I certainly thought I would never get the hang of it. I don't think we ever stop learning when it comes to astrology. But the more charts we do, the more it becomes second nature.

Cheers
Sue

10 by MarkF
I also wouldn't use Pluto in this chart as well. It's like Sue said. I'd use the outers when they are angular or when they are in a close (and I mean close, 1 -5 degrees away AT MOST!) from a najor significator.

One part of this chart that no one has mentioned is how the Moon is translating light from the Sun to Mars. It has separated from the Sun by trine and now applies to Mars by square. By house rulerships, neither Mars nor the Sun seem to point to much of anythings, so I take them to be their natural rulers, i.e., as signs of men, or this man in question. I might keep my eye open on this guy, because if this is right, then he's shown by both Saturn and Mars in detriment. Your first meeting was shown by an opposition and this new start is shown by a square to Mars. The Moon receives Mars by exaltaion, so maybe you are willing to overlook his faults, but he is still free do what he pleases. Maybe your gut feeling to be afraid of him that you mentioned in your first post were correct. So enjoy, but keep an eye open.
Mark F

Dating chart

11 by voyagergirl
Now the timing is pretty straightforward... take your moon and see how many degrees apart the furthest aspect is (in your case it's Jupiter). Subtract the 2 numbers so Jupiter at 27.10 degrees and Moon at 20.30 degrees and you get 7ish...
This was a quote from another poster on Oct. 14, which is about 9 weeks ago... so the "7ish" time frame was not too far off! (Of course, the poster thought that it would be 7 months...)

But I agree with Mark, the opposition and square aspects would give me pause as well with this guy. Keep us posted.

Some more ideas

12 by voyagergirl
I sat down and took another look at this chart, this time using Lee Lehman's techniques.

Since she would place HIS significator in the 5th house of romance (since at the time the question was asked you hadn't gotten to the boyfriend stage yet) that makes his significator Venus.

If you notice, Venus and Jupiter are in mutual reception. And Jupiter is in the 5th house. Now if you believe Barbara Watters and some other astrologers, when planets are in MR, they exchange not only signs but degrees. If that's true, then the MR between Jupiter and Venus would make the exchange look like this: Venus is now at 27 Libra and Jupiter is at 5 Sag. So that means the Moon, YOUR ruler will come to trine HIS ruler (using the reception placement) in some unit of 7. And that would put the "exchanged" Venus in your 5th house, since it changed places with Jupiter.

However, I don't know if Lee Lehman uses the "exchange" theory for planets in MR, but it's interesting how it plays out here. (And it gets rid of that pesky square problem with Mars and the Moon, since Mars doesn't come into play using Lee's techniques.) (And now we don't have to consider Pluto either.)

Just some thoughts!
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