Thats also IF they are ever going to end. I am new to horary so I am still learning as to how to read when i am asking about someone else. T is the guy and R is the girl.

Which house would I look to, for this type of question? (I am asking about T the guy)
Should I look at the 5th or the 7th house? What applying aspects should I be looking for when asking about someone else?


Link to the chart. http://i.imgur.com/fWhA7a6.gif?1

julz87 said:

Thats also IF they are ever going to end. I am new to horary so I am still learning as to how to read when i am asking about someone else. T is the guy and R is the girl.

Well we are all still learning, so whether a greenhorn(newbie) to horary or one of the Adept who understand horary pretty well such as Lilly, the Ancients, Deb Houlding, Sue Ward, Dorothy J. Kovach, John Frawley, our beloved Johaness, etc., or our forthright and strong Moderators like brother Paul and Mark, it helps if we try to spell and structure our sentences well for those internationally who May Be utilizing Web Translators; codes are hard on them to decipher. And Yes, we well know there are many who hide under various names(handles or nicknames) because they might get be shy in showing that of which they do Not understand or other reasons they wish to remain hidden.

Which house would I look to, for this type of question? (I am asking about T the guy) Should I look at the 5th or the 7th house? What applying aspects should I be looking for when asking about someone else?

If you want to appear as Cancer-like, infantile, or Arian-like, a big baby, and Not listen to the wisdom of the Ancients(Saturn and Jupiter) and Lilly you might wish to go feral, run wild, go off on your own on a dead end road like John Gadbury did in using the 5th for love affairs and Romance.

I'm not running down Aries or Cancer, we know from our natal studies what the 'keywords' of various signs are and their individual characteristics and we all have Aries or Cancer somewhere or their rulers despite interceptions!

Or if you wish to honestly try to get it right, staying with the proper houses for the matter, you may wish to read CAII, or look upon the various horarys listed by page numbers at the beginning of CAI, that point out that the giant of horary, Lilly used the 7th for good reason.

***If one is so worried, or sooooo sensitive about listing the lattitude and longitude from where the horary is calculated one could give a longitude with 15 degrees difference where other artists could calculate the horoscope as they can see the data!***

Also there are reasons some will look down their noses at another who are Ultra-Trads if one Does Not use Regiomontanus house system.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

Which house would I look to, for this type of question? (I am asking about T the guy)
Should I look at the 5th or the 7th house? What applying aspects should I be looking for when asking about someone else?

Welcome to Skyscript.

Most of the things are not clear. The question has been asked by you, so you get the first house.

What does T mean to you?

Is he your brother? (T gets 3rd house)
Is your neighbor? (T gets 3rd house)
Is he your not so intimate friend (T gets 5th house)
Is he your confidant and friend (T gets 11th house)
Former love interest and T is well aware of it (T gets 7th house)
Former Husband? (T gets 7th house)

I assume that the real question is will I and T get re-united?
See receptions and aspects between your and T significators. Any kind of applying aspect helps except opposition aspect.

Thank you! and He would be my not so intimate friend, and no I was really asking "when are T and R going to end?" because lately they have been having some issues and well it is hard for anyone to get close to him and he let this girl in and I am worried he might get hurt badly in the end.

Thank you! and He would be my not so intimate friend,....

In that case 'T' gets 5th house and 'R' gets 11th house.

Mars signifies T and Venus signifies R. They are both in the sign of Taurus and are already separating. Mars is very close to Sun (though separating) which shows that the person signified by Mars can not 'see' reason or has difficulty in seeing the light (truth)

Gryffindor says:

In that case 'T' gets 5th house and 'R' gets 11th house.

Mars signifies T and Venus signifies R. They are both in the sign of Taurus and are already separating. Mars is very close to Sun (though separating) which shows that the person signified by Mars can not 'see' reason or has difficulty in seeing the light (truth)

No, No and Double NO!!!!

When or where does Lilly use the 5th for relationships or romances?

Re-Read CAII and where in Lilly's CA does he go off Feral-like, become as symboliclly like a horse or a pet(dog or cat) that becomes wild and runs away from tradition?

John Frawley whom Lilly latter despised according to our beloved and adept Geoffrey, misused the 5th for relationships or romance.

But as Geoffrey stated 'Lilly thought of John Gadbury latter as a Cad...' because he may have learned whom Gadbury truly was and is Gadbury considered by Lilly as one of the Modernes that Lilly writes about in CA?

The 7th is the significant other by Lilly's work and the querant is the 1H and Luna.

See this is the type of thing that weakens horary and gives more ammunition to those whom dis-believe astrology, someone who misunderstands the rulerships of various houses, puts their feralized data in print, and misleads the students of astrology down the road to 'perdition.'

This 5th for romances is a 'swamp' and so feralized and entrenched by many writers, could it be a reason why others have problems with astrology since many horary artists Do Not know the house rulerships and are passing around this distorting Moderne's confusion?

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

Clinton,

The Original Poster has indicated that 'T' is not so intimate friend and she has not categorized him as a ex-lover etc. Please read the above posts.


Gryffindor wrote:

Welcome to Skyscript.

Most of the things are not clear. The question has been asked by you, so you get the first house.

What does T mean to you?

Is he your brother? (T gets 3rd house)
Is your neighbor? (T gets 3rd house)
Is he your not so intimate friend (T gets 5th house)
Is he your confidant and friend (T gets 11th house)
Former love interest and T is well aware of it (T gets 7th house)
Former Husband? (T gets 7th house)....

She is asking about 'T''s relationship with some other girl named 'R'. And I have not read in Forum rules that Lilly is the deciding authority when forum members are giving their opinions

Clinton wrote:

See this is the type of thing that weakens horary and gives more ammunition to those whom dis-believe astrology, someone who misunderstands the rulerships of various houses, puts their feralized data in print, and misleads the students of astrology down the road to 'perdition.'

You would do great service to Horary by practicing it rather than comparing texts of Gadbury and Lilly.

P.S and Please stop repeating Gadbury's and Lilly's animosity. Should I list all the Horary books which I have read and own? . The art of Horary existed before Lilly

Hi Julz87

First of all, welcome to the forum!
One of the main things we focus on here is to encourage the querent to be their own astrologer - this can be a little daunting, but effectively means that you take ownership of interpreting the chart. If you feel you cannot do this, then it may be better, in the short term, to focus on learning some of the horary basics and trying to work from there. Fortunately we have more resources or recommendations than you can shake a stick at:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary.html

One of the main things I personally encourage is to really try to get to the heart of the real question that is playing on your mind. You are asking about T and R here, but really why do you care whether they stay together or not? Is this really the question you want to know? Why would you care? Is it that you are interested in T yourself and wish to know if you would have a chance with him, provided he was single, and wish to know, first of all, whether he will be single? It is unusual for us to be interested in other people's relationships unless its consequence will lead to some issue, dilemma or opportunity for us. If you are just worried that this guy will get hurt, maybe this is the better question to ask. In my experience asking a question more true to what you really are worried about tends to produce charts which more easily and readily describes the answer - and sometimes just getting to the heart of your worries enough that you might articulate the question can even provide insight to the extent that you do not need to ask the question at all!

I do not mean to imply that everybody does this of course or that asking after two others is an impossibility, though, for some, it may raise some ethical concerns as well.

Clinton Soule wrote:
When or where does Lilly use the 5th for relationships or romances?

Lilly doesn't. But then, the sort of relationships which some enlightened astrologers use the 5th house for today did not exist in Lilly' day. Lilly wrote CA over three hundred and fifty years ago and the society in which Lilly lived was very different in many respects than that in which we live today.

In Lilly's day, women were not viable financially independent people as they are today. They depended on finding a husband who would support them. And prospective husbands were not attracted to women who "sleep around" - for obvious reasons - and so women didn't. Too, there was no contraceptive pill in Lilly's day, nor was there a welfare state to support a single mother and her child, so allowing them to be financially viable.

The casual sex that is an accepted part of modern life simply did not happen in Lilly's day, and that persisted until relatively recently. I can remember being horrified when I discovered that two fellow university students (boy and girl) were living together in the same apartment!

The cultural landscape in which we live is different in many ways to that which Lilly knew, and if astrology is to remain viable and potent in today's world, then it has to adapt and reflect those differences.

But as Geoffrey stated 'Lilly thought of John Gadbury latter as a Cad...'

"Cur" Clinton. Lilly called Gadbury an "ungrateful cur".

Julz87 originally said:

Thats also IF they are ever going to end. I am new to horary so I am still learning as to how to read when i am asking about someone else. T is the guy and R is the girl.

Which house would I look to, for this type of question? (I am asking about T the guy)
Should I look at the 5th or the 7th house? What applying aspects should I be looking for when asking about someone else?

That sure did sound like a 7th house query from above quote!

Gryffindor asutely pointed out:

What does T mean to you?

Is he your brother? (T gets 3rd house)
Is your neighbor? (T gets 3rd house)
Is he your not so intimate friend (T gets 5th house)
Is he your confidant and friend (T gets 11th house)
Former love interest and T is well aware of it (T gets 7th house)
Former Husband? (T gets 7th house)

where julz87 confirmed:

and He would be my not so intimate friend, and no I was really asking "when are T and R going to end?"

Thanks, Gryffindor for asking for clarification because as you noticed I and possibly others by the way the original post was stated possibly gave the impression to more artists than myself that this was another 7th matter.

I wish original posters would try to clarify from their original post what the nature of the query is, as many in the past few months some of you may have noticed are beyond vague; clear communication is often needed in discussion!

I have an aquarius position too, and I've often read that Aquarians know what they are trying to say yet many times do not communicate it effectively. I tend to think many here on the Forum write just this way in that:

1) they well know what they are trying to say

2) but they often have little clue that this is a Forum of astrologers and Not everyone has enough water sign in their maps to make them 'worthy psychics' where they can read deeper than the words a poster puts in print. It appears that many posters assume the reader may understand exactly what they are saying without organizing the Original Post in a manner that others can understand it clearly.

Goeoffrey corrected me by stating:

Quote:
But as Geoffrey stated 'Lilly thought of John Gadbury latter as a Cad...'

"Cur" Clinton. Lilly called Gadbury an "ungrateful cur".

Beloved Scottish highlander, please tell me exactly what the term Cur meant in Lilly's time. Being raised by those of 'Yank nationalism' has left me so ignorant of my Europeon heritage other than my university studies.

Gryffindor, I was Not trying to keep the tension going between two who are now in the graveyard, I was simply pointing out that Lilly most likely scorned Gadbury as deviating off on a feral Moderne road like Kepler's minor aspects.

And Yes, Gryffindor in respect I'd love to hear quotes and the sources you have studied as astro sibling Paul has stated in his post at the top of the 'Horary & Electional Forum' page that Deb inspired.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

I'm adding this because in my last post of which I'm Not quite sure how to edit and add a quote unless it is at the end of the post without making a mess of the prior post.

Paul our Moderator stated:

You are asking about T and R here, but really why do you care whether they stay together or not? Is this really the question you want to know? Why would you care? Is it that you are interested in T yourself and wish to know if you would have a chance with him, provided he was single, and wish to know, first of all, whether he will be single?

Julz87 and Gryffindor, I'm Not trying to embarrass or shame anyone, nor cause contention, but the fact our Moderator, and Paul is pretty sharp in observations, may have misunderstood your query says to me others just may misunderstand if one does not thoroughly make themself clear in their Original Post, as some may post from reading the first post only with the assumption that the poster has stated clearly what they were trying to say and what they needed help upon.

Also Julz87, Paul's post at the head of the 'Horary & Electional Astrology' Forum reminds us to list the calculation data.

I understand you wish this to be confidential as this is an open board and some do Not wish others to know whom they are.

So if one adds or subtracts 15 degrees in longitude, another city east or west, with the same exact lattitude you can give co-ordinates for those who will calculate their own horoscopes to help your interptetation discussion.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Who would truly appreaciate others who are thorough and precise!

Clinton Soule wrote: Beloved Scottish highlander, please tell me exactly what the term Cur meant in Lilly's time. Being raised by those of 'Yank nationalism' has left me so ignorant of my Europeon heritage other than my university studies.

I hope Geoffrey does not mind me answering here, but a cur is normally a colloquialism for someone of poor upbringing or civility - it literally means a kind of mongrel dog, without pedigree. It wouldn't be atypical to refer to someone as a "mangey cur" for example. It would have been a common enough insult once upon a time in Britain.

And Yes, Gryffindor in respect I'd love to hear quotes and the sources you have studied as astro sibling Paul has stated in his post at the top of the 'Horary & Electional Forum' page that Deb inspired.

I'm not sure what you mean here.