The following two quotations are not authorised by James Herschel Holden!

James Herschel Holden wrote:[...] the time frame of a Horary chart is days or weeks, while the time frame of a Natal chart is the entire lifetime of the native!

Had only Lilly written in Latin, by translation into American/English his obviously dissenting opinion could have been known perhaps . . .

James Herschel Holden wrote: Thus, if the Moon is void of course in a Horary chart, it means that nothing will happen within a short time to alter the presemt situation. But in a Natal chart it would mean that nothing would ever happen in the native's entire life to alter the situation at birth! This is obviously incorrect, as there will usually be many changes in a person's life.

At least Firmicus Maternus seems to think a little bit more differentiatedly. But was not James Herschel Holden translator of Fimicus Maternus recently?

Johannes

maybe i am making a mistake and being unkind to james holden for quoting a private response to a question i had asked thru the af of a's website.. he is not here to elaborate so i ask those raising questions to forgive me for sharing this bit of information which i thought some appreciate reading.. i contacted him thru the af of a and it was thru a secretary that i was given the response.. i am sure he is a busy guy and i can't answer for him in response to what i have quoted.

geoffrey, i had sent you a private message a week or so ago as i thought you might have some thoughts that you could share on this topic, but i don't know that you received that pm from me. if you would like to comment more, i would be interested. perhaps the idea that much of horary is short term in nature is misplaced. i don't doubt that events that happen over a short time frame can have huge impact on a persons life and they don't need to be of long duration, but i know this isn't answering your question either.

he did qualify his comment with the word 'opinion'...

james_m wrote:maybe i am making a mistake and being unkind to james holden for quoting a private response to a question i had asked ....

There is a tradition in some circles of academia that if you are going to quote from an article or book, you should seek the author's permission first. Coming as I do from the hard sciences, where the cut and thrust of debate can be settled with much more certainty (theory can be compared with experiment), such an idea belongs firmly in the past. If you express a view in public - particularly in a peer reviewed journal - then it is there to be torn down as sloppy or outdated, or used by others to support their own work, which is how scholarly investigation proceeds.

The fairest way to acknowledge the work of others is to quote the relevant passage and cite the work from which it is taken, so that the reader can place the quote in context for themselves and decide for themselves if the author is justified in using the quoted work in the way he or she has.

I think you did that James, so I do not think any apology is necessary. There is, too, a long history of citing 'private communications' in academic literature, so you should not be put off by that fact. Anyway, there does not seem to be any such thing as 'private communication' these days. In this case, you were seeking clarification on a piece which Holden wrote and was in the public domain. I think there is a justification in concluding that Holden's clarification should also be in the public domain.

geoffrey, i had sent you a private message a week or so ago as i thought you might have some thoughts that you could share on this topic, but i don't know that you received that pm from me.

There was a time when a PM was alerted by an email to the recipient, but this seems to happen no longer....

James_m,

Some of my friends are interested in pursuing 'Modern Western Astrology', though I follow a different 'Natal Astrology', few years I was asked to take part in a research. The informal research was aimed at finding the effects of 'Void of Course action of Moon' when we progress the Moon (Progressed Moon). It was confirmed that 'if progressed Moon becomes void of course for a certain years/months, nothing much is happening in the life of the subject. A kind of status quo existence for the duration of 'Void of Course Moon'.

geoffrey,

thanks for that kind response. i appreciate it!

gryffindor,

that was interesting! obviously those folks don't work with midpoints or they would have seen the moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoint pictures!!! cheers - james

Hi James,

that was interesting! obviously those folks don't work with midpoints or they would have seen the moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoint pictures!!! cheers - james

No, they did not use mid points, but if you do, there is a fair chance that you would see moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoints and you would also not find Moon Void of Course.

On a serious note. James, do you use mid points in predictive astrology? I confess that 'Mid Points', make me curious. Once I solved a difficult case through the help of mid points (L ' Ennui movie)

gryffindor,

i do use midpoints in predictive astrology. i look at midpoints and find they can shed valuable information on where a person is at in the present based on my work with solar arc directions. let me give you an example.. the midpoint of veritas saturn/jupiter is at 29 libra 38.. this is the person asking about starting a political party on another thread. i don't think it is a coincidence that this duo of planets in the 2nd house put an emphasis on a concern for money( although i implied the same based on this persons natal chart with a triple conjunction on the edge of the 2nd house, and including jupiter in scorpio which i view as also 2nd house) - money is a 2nd house( or 8th to an extent) issue, or that to a degree they represent an interest in starting a political party.. you see the solar arc direction of the angles to veritas chart based on the 735pm time they gave has just changed signs with sa ascendant at 0 scorpio 42.. if we use a rectified time of 731pm - the sa ascendant is now at 29 libra 57, while the sa midheaven is squaring onto this point at 29 cancer 40.. the only reason i point out another possible time is thru private conversation with veritas mentioning this to me... regardless of the specific time 735pm or 731pm - the solar arc angles are very close to this midpoint and i think they reflect some of what veritas is focused on..

i don't want to get into the details of this different thread here and if you want another example, perhaps i can provide one via a pm! i think the pioneering work done by those astrologers who have considered midpoints to be a valuable addition to astrology plain and simple. those who ignore midpoints and only pay attention to one on one dynamics with planets or angles will see and get a lot from a chart too, but they might miss just how these energies are coloured.. this is what i believe midpoint data offers..

sorry for the wordy response..

cheers james

James_m,

Wonderful. Thanks a lot. You have piqued my interest. I would take out my copy of 'Combination of Stellar Influences' and start experimenting. But as I dont use 'Solar Arc and Progressions in my natal work, I will try to combine it with Triple layered Transit System.

Gryffindor wrote:few years I was asked to take part in a research. The informal research was aimed at finding the effects of 'Void of Course action of Moon' when we progress the Moon (Progressed Moon). It was confirmed that 'if progressed Moon becomes void of course for a certain years/months, nothing much is happening in the life of the subject. A kind of status quo existence for the duration of 'Void of Course Moon'.

ah heck, is that what's wrong, the thought had occured to me as my pMoon is in the last degree now. It might be hard to tell if nada is happening in my life though, that might not be so unusual. No way for me to know since I don't really know what a VOC means. and watching conversations on the subject makes me think I wouldn't even be able to tell if it is or not.

Ariondys,

ah heck, is that what's wrong, the thought had occured to me as my pMoon is in the last degree now. It might be hard to tell if nada is happening in my life though, that might not be so unusual. No way for me to know since I don't really know what a VOC means. and watching conversations on the subject makes me think I wouldn't even be able to tell if it is or not.

We applied 'VOC' slightly different from what is understood in Traditional Astrology. and we had to rule out those cases where important 'Transits where happening. Still, I was just a research associate (unpaid). I do not apply 'VOC' in my natal chart readings.

When my pMoon changes signs, 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 7, 9...
say, within a month. I could point to change. it could get mucked up into my house cusps...

Can-moved towns to reach classes for a 3rd school semester after a summer off(I moved twice, before and after the sign change)
Leo-joined a club
Vir-quit that club
Lib-moved across town
Sco- n/a yet

it would be too literal to complain that change could occur 1/2 a degree prior to the sign change I guess...

Could someone clarify a few things

Let's assume the native's Moon's at 24 Aries and Venus is at 1 Taurus. My question is whether the Moon's void or not.