Hi,

Saturn's transit of the North Node

I'm getting the feeling that it is necessary to consider the North Node alot more in Mundane Astrology.

Without it it is like a boat without a bow and a stern.

But although I've read alot on the North Node I don't see how it manifests itself in our lives on a gran scale.

What changes when the Node transits into anew sign or when it is retro or infact in this case when it is visited again by Saturn ?

Some say it is Saturn's relationhip to the North Node that is causing the easy money policies of the central banks.

However, Saturn is useually associated with restriction not excessive flow.

So whilst I read more on the North Node what rules of thumb to people have for it?

H

Hello Rocko,

I think this is an interesting line of research. I have found the nodes increasingly useful in my own astrology as a predictive tool. I think the transiting nodes do need more attention in mundane astrology too.

In Indian astrology the North Node (Rahu) is regarded of the nature of Saturn and the South Node (Ketu) is of the nature of Mars. For Indian astrologers Rahu has a nature very similar to that of Saturn and is considered a 'friend' of Saturn so this conjunction would be seen as fairly positive. Not least as Saturn is still exalted in sidereal Libra.

Here are some general associations of Rahu from the UK based Indian astrologer Komilla Sutton:

Rahu behaves like Saturn. It deals with drugs, poisons, over ambition, power play, hidden knowledge,

Rahu's element is air. It deals with all aspects of air related activities air travel, Air accidents, Aviation, Pilots etc. Other significations of Rahu include students of Astrology, metaphysical knowledge, witchcraft, skin diseases, small pox, deception, politics, political manoeuvre, inventions, scientists, execution, diseases, disenchantment etc.

In contrast in western medieval/renaissance astrology the the planetary associations are different with the North Node associated with Jupiter and Venus while the South Node is associated with Mars and Saturn. The North node is seen as representing the principle of growth and expansion while the South Node represents contraction and diminishment. Medieval astrologers such as Guido Bonatti considered it undesirable to have a malefic (like Saturn) close to the North Node as its malefic potential would increase. Following this logic a malefic conjunct the South Node would be less destructive as this node would be seen to restrict the planet's malefic potential. Other astrologers such as William Lilly disagreed and suggested that the South Node was generally malefic and its combination with a malefic like Saturn or Mars was very negative.

If we look back further into Greek astrology though both nodes were considered malefic and planets squaring them (especially the Moon) was a source of misfortune.

Essentially, Indians and Greeks see both both nodes as malefics where as in Perso-Arabic and European traditional astrology only the south node has a malefic reputation.

You will find next to nothing in western astrology on the mundane effects of nodes transiting a sign. You would have to apply delineations of the Nodes by sign in natal analysis.

In contrast the nodes have far more emphasis in Indian astrology and are treated as 'shadow planets'. Indian astrologers closely observe the transits of these points.

There are traditions of the nodes being exalted in western astrology in certain signs. The North node is traditionally exalted in Gemini and in fall in Sagittarius. The South Node in fall in Gemini and exalted in Sagittarius.

Indian astrology has associations of both exaltation and rulership of the nodes in certain signs but its quite a controversial topic and different traditional sources quote different exaltation/rulership signs.

Both Indian and western medieval astrology have other uses for the nodes too. For example western medieval astrology incorporates a system of planetary periods called Firdaria which incorporates periods ruled by each node. In Indian astrology the system of planetary periods known as the dasas is a fundamental predictive tool and also incorporates periods ruled by each node.

Indian astrology doesn't just work with a 12 sign zodiac but also a lunar zodiac known as the Nakshatras. Each Nakshatra have a planetary ruler and that includes some ruled by Rahu and Ketu. This adds a whole new dimension to where a conjunction occurs in the 27 Nakshatras.

There is more on this in this piece by Komilla Sutton:

http://www.komilla.com/pages/library/rahu_ketu.cfm

For your information the forthcoming Saturn-NN conjunction occurs in the 15th nakshatra called called Swati. This nakshatra is actually ruled by Rahu itself.

Here are Komilla Sutton's comments on this Nakshatra:

The Second Nakshatra ruled by Rahu is Swati ( 6 degrees 40' to 20 degrees 00' Libra) Planets in Swati indicate the depth of the soul's involvement in Materialism. The indicator of the soul in our chart, the Sun, is debilitated here and Saturn the worker of the Zodiac is exalted here. Under Swati, the impulse is all about material gain. Venus rules the earthly needs in an individual. Combining it with Rahu it adds further to the desire for success, wealth and finance. Many millionaires are born with their Moon's or Saturn in Swati. The presiding deity is Vayu (air).The Symbol is Coral. The location of this Nakshatra in Libra indicates that the experience of full involvment into earthy, materialistic pleasures will bring with it dissatisfaction because the scales will be heavy to one side. Once success is achieved we feel empty, alone and dissatisfied with our achievement, many try for more success but the correct thing would be to look towards your higher self at this time. Libra is a stage of life when we start thinking about the spiritual meaning of life but only once the other urges have been fulfilled.

On a practical level we need to look at the dispositor of any conjunction with the Nodes. In terms of the tropical zodiac at the forthcoming conjunction on September 25th we have Mars as the dispositor by domicile ruler. Mars is peregrine in Leo and in an applying square to Venus.

Irrespective of the traditional lore its certainly worth researching what actually happened in terms of world events during previous conjunctions of Saturn and the North Node.

The last conjunction occurred on 6th June 2002 in tropical Taurus. At this time Pluto was also conjunct the SN and the Sun in Taurus on the NN too:

Here are some events that occurred close to the event:

June 1 - June 4 ? Celebrations for the Golden Jubilee of Elizabeth II take place in the United Kingdom and across the Commonwealth.

June 4 ? The planetoid Quaoar is discovered orbiting the Sun in the Kuiper belt.

June 6 ? Eastern Mediterranean Event: An object with an estimated diameter of 10 meters collides with Earth, over the Mediterranean Sea, and detonates in mid-air.

Prior to this a conjunction last occurred on 20th January 1991 in tropical Capricorn.

Events surrounding the Conjunction:

January 12 ? Gulf War: The Congress of the United States passes a resolution authorizing the use of military force to liberate Kuwait.
January 13
Soviet forces storm Vilnius to stop Lithuanian independence. January Events (Lithuania).
A fight and stampede at a pre-season exhibition match between South African football teams Kaizer Chiefs and Orlando Pirates in the town of Orkney near Johannesburg, South Africa leaves 42 dead.
January 15
The United Nations deadline for the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from occupied Kuwait expires, preparing the way for the start of Operation Desert Storm.
Prime Minister of Cape Verde Pedro Pires resigns following his party's loss in the January 13 Cape Verdean parliamentary election, the first ever multiparty election in an African nation.
January 16
U.S. serial killer Aileen Wuornos confesses to the murders of six men.
Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm begins with air strikes against Iraq.
January 17
Gulf War: Iraq fires eight Scud missiles into Israel.
Harald V of Norway becomes king on the death of his father, Olav V.
The volcano Hekla erupts on Iceland
January 18 ? Eastern Air Lines shuts down after 62 years, citing financial problems.
January 19
A SCUD attack on Tel Aviv injures 15 people.
The Party of the Alliance of Youth, Workers and Farmers of Angola is founded in Luanda, Angola.
January 21 ? Harald V formally takes the throne as King of Norway, succeeding his father, Olav V of Norway.
January 22
Three SCUDs and one Patriot missile hit Ramat Gan in Israel, injuring 96 people; 3 elderly people die of heart attacks.
British Army SAS patrol, Bravo Two Zero is deployed in Iraq during the Gulf War. All but one of eight members are killed or captured.
January 24 ? The government of Papua New Guinea signs a peace agreement with separatist leaders from Bougainville Island, ending fighting that had gone on since 1988.
January 26 ? Siad Barre is overthrown. Somalia enters civil war

A Prior North Node- Saturn conjunction occurred in tropical Leo on 17th July 1979

Events occurring close to the conjunction:

15th - Morarji Desai resigns as premier of India
Iraqi President Saddam HusseinIraqi President Saddam Hussein 16th - Premier/pres al-Bakr of Iraq is succeeded by Saddam Hussein
17th - Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza flees to Miami
17th - Sebastian Coe runs world record 3:49 mile in Oslo
17th - Simone Veil becomes chairman of European Parliament
18th - Gold hits record $303.85 an ounce in London
18th - USSR performs nuclear Test at Eastern Kazakh/Semipalitinsk USSR
19th - 2 supertankers collide off Tobago-260,000 TONS of oil spill
19th - Nicaragua Liberation Day; Sandinistas take over from Somoza

Looking at all the dates some themes themes appear to be extra-terrestrial objects, Leadership/government changes, nuclear incidents, miltary incidents involving war/death.

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for all that input.

I put a similar but not the same thread under Vedic because as you say Vedic give Saturn and Marzs to the NN and SN but westerns give Jupiter and Saturn.

So heap big difference.

It's the essence of the north Node I'm looking for ie what changes on earth when it chanfges sign or is applied to.

Also does it accept squares aswell as conjunctions ?

Can't get a feel for it but I will.

Thanks,

H