I've done a lot of Hunting Electional charts that have been very successful in the past but I've never interpreted a hunting horary yet was asked this mourning:

Will I bag the Big Game Animal this year?

5:22 A.M. . . . Univ. Time 12:22 . . . Sid. Time 6:35:13

10 / 24 / 2013

Carson City, Nevada . . .USA . . .119w46 . . .39n10

If one Does Not enlarge the horoscope nor re-calculate another horoscope from this page it tends to stay indefinitely, and one can get the Additional Tables(PDF) showing needed data, or go to the ephemeris page via this website:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid= ... fix=1&ast=

I realize there may be some Virgo or Sagittarian type Vegans out there whom are opposed to hunting, yet Lilly did note hunting horaries as in CA:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html

Lilly, William Christian Astrology, vols: I, II & III 1659 PDF format Astrologia Medieval

****Lilly, William Christian Astrology, vols I & II 1647 Word document Mithras93****

http://mithras93.tripod.com/books/books.html

CAII pp. 586-587

CHAP. LIII.

Of Hunting.

[Sith the Ancients have taken notice of such trifles, I must consent.]
You shall know the Lord of hunting by the ascendant, the Moon, and from the Lord of the terme of the degree of the Moon and from the Lord of the hour; for the Lord of the hour is of great force and strength, when he is in the ascendant, and the ascendant a signe of four footed beasts: in case of hunting see if the ascendant be a signe of four footed beasts, or an earthly signe, for these are good for hunting amongst mountaines, and hils; see the Lord of the ascendant, and the Lord of the hour, if they be fortunate or infortunate; and if either do behold other, or separate one from another, and if one be falling from another, note this. Consider after if the 7th be a signe of four footed beasts, and if you do finde in the same the Lord thereof, or the Lord of the hour; or the Lord of the angle fortunate, judge that the beast you seek for shall be found and taken. But if the Lord of the 7th be an Infortune, and the Moon infortunate, the good planets falling after her, after much search something shall be found, and little shall be taken, and that with wearinesse of the body; which shall be the truer, if the Lord of the ascendant be Saturn, and in the 7th or in any of the angles of the Lord of the 7th, and she be fortunate, say that he shall speed in his Hunting.

http://www.astrology.com.tr/planetary-hours.asp

I'm Not certain under the present Rx Mercury that this is correct but I calculate Mars is lord of the hour and in triplicity to the 7th, the animal hunted:

http://www.lunarium.co.uk/planets/hours ... %2F10%2F13

Moon 05:03 06:09

http://www.astrology.com.tr/planetary-hours.asp

23. 05:05 06:10 Moon

The lord of the Hour, Luna, is in her dignity, yet Venus, lord of the asc has No Aspects!

As I understand No Aspects mean No Action.

Well according to Lilly the asc is Not a four footed sign. And the hour ruler being the Moon is in triplicity to Mars(rules sco).

Yet for Big Game animals Virgo on the 12H, Mercury being Rx and soon to cjt Saturn, and Mars lord of the quarry, as Mars is sextiled by the Moon, this is puzzling!

My thinking is as the 7th is the quarry, and the 12th is large animals there needs to be confirmation in both houses; they should support each other.
I'm thinking under the present Merc Rx, that since Leo is on the 11th, hopes and wishes, a beastial sign, and sextiling Mars(L. of the 7th) that the hunter will bag his Big Game animal.

Seeing how Mercury is Rx, lord of the 12H, large animals, in the hunter's 2nd, I'm thinking the quarry will end up in the hunter's possession. And the quarry's death is the horary's 2nd, the turned 8th, ruled by sco and mars with Sol sitting on the turned 8H, and Mars being stalked or taken by the Moon our querant.

I'm puzzled by the non-aspected lord of the asc, Venus, yet many things confirm a successful hunt as Luna is almost partile to the sextile with Mars the quarry!


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know truly how little they know

My initial reaction is that a Big Game Hunt is a prestigious 10th house sort of activity. The question can be recast as, "Will this Grand Hunt be successful?"

The Moon is ruler of the 10th and is on the cusp of the 10th. Exalted Jupiter is in the 10th. There would seem to be good indication for success.

I have a concern that the next aspect the Moon makes is a sextile to Mars, ruler of the 7th. Mars is in opposition to Neptune, indicating that perhaps an unknown spanner is floating about ready to undo carefully laid plans. And Uranus is retrograde and moving back to a conjunction with the 7th house cusp. Perhaps there will be issues with our Big Gam Hunter's partner which will suddenly cause him to cancel the trip?

Geoffrey, from what Lilly writes I'm assuming he may never have actually done a query on hunting, but it does make sense that he placed it under the 7th, before his war related horaries and his trial or legal horary.

Geoffrey:

My initial reaction is that a Big Game Hunt is a prestigious 10th house sort of activity. The question can be recast as, "Will this Grand Hunt be successful?"

The Moon is ruler of the 10th and is on the cusp of the 10th. Exalted Jupiter is in the 10th. There would seem to be good indication for success.

I'm interested in is there other documents that put the hunted animal in the 10th from other writers?

Since Lilly in one 7th house query utilized the 7th and 11th(hopes & wishes), and in his 5th house queries he includes the 5th and 7th in order to prove the idenity of the father, and in his 4th house matter of Master B's Houses Lilly utilized more than one house in judging the query, I thought using both the 12th(large animal) and 7th may have answers to the horary's riddle.

As Mercury and Mars(lord of 7th) are in Mutual Reception I see the Peregrine ruler is abated. And the Peregrine ruler of the 7th does describe the nature of the animal being hunted!

Anyone have any experience on hunting horaries that they would like to share?

Geoffrey:

I have a concern that the next aspect the Moon makes is a sextile to Mars, ruler of the 7th. Mars is in opposition to Neptune, indicating that perhaps an unknown spanner is floating about ready to undo carefully laid plans. And Uranus is retrograde and moving back to a conjunction with the 7th house cusp. Perhaps there will be issues with our Big Gam Hunter's partner which will suddenly cause him to cancel the trip?

Yes, as Deb utilized outers in her horary in her fantastic horary course, I found that Uranus was a culprit with his partner's reliability and possibly the public's sentiments about anti-hunting may have anti hunting protesters violating his hunt.

And that unaspected ruler, Venus, just doesn't seem right here; there should be a connection I would say!


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know[/quote]

Other ancient texts at my disposal also confirm that

Hunter and the Hunted or
Pursuer and the Pursued

is 1-7th Horary.

There might be some wisdom in Geoffrey's reasoning for assigning 10th house to the Hunted


Almost all of the 'Big game' now a days is a regulated affair (speaking from experience as an ex-Hunter). A license is issued by the Game warden after the paying of stipulated government fee (this fee is normally on the higher side). The group of hunters is allowed to hunt (lets say) only one, so, whoever, among the group achieves the feat definitely answers to the 10th house of achievement.

I have never been asked a horary question regarding Big game hunt. Perhaps this kind of question (in our part of the world)was common in 19th & and early 20th century. People have grown sensitive. My family (women folk only) forced me to quit Hunting and to replace it with harmless activity like playing Cricket.

My commiserations to you Morpheus on having to substitute the thrill of the hunt to spending your afternoons watching a game of cricket from the boundaries of the cricket field - interspersed with periods of unwelcome physical exertion as the ball is hit your way!

But, as someone who has been a hunter, thankyou for explaining how a "Big Game" hunt in particular can be regarded as a prestigious 10th house activity. Most hunters dream about going on Safari to hunt one of the "Big Five" in Africa, or something even more exotic like tracking down a Mountain sheep in Tajikistan. Very few hunters are able to realise such a dream.

There are billionaires for whom hunting is a passion and they can afford such hunts as their usual sort of hunt. But for the common man who is a hunter, such a hunt would be a once-in-a-lifetime affair which would be years in the planning and would involve very considerable expense. He will be the envy of his hunting friends with whom he hunts in his local area, and will relax and swap stories about hunting and shooting. For such a hunter, it is natural to ask if all this commitment will result in success.

in a world where big animals are under threat constantly due the changes on the planet, and very few hunters hunt for sustenance which i could understand, it is sad to think of killing an innocent animal.. what is in it for the person other then some egotistic thing? at this point in our culture i would look at this unnecessary action of murder more a 12th house thing, which i think is how big animals have always been associated with. maybe one would look to the 5th house if a persons ego is the reason for the kill..

Morpheus, I would love to see any documentation on hunting horaries that you have.

This is the only web-based horary on hunting that I can find presently and it's from India's sources, perhaps Vedic. Didn't John Frawley utilize some Vedic horary or am I mistaken?

http://books.google.com/books?id=ItY0V3 ... y'&f=false

I have used Vivian E. Robson's Electional Astrology that he borrowed much from William Ramsey's Astrology Restored, of which I'm presently studying, and his(Robson) hunting formulae's are marvelous; have used it on great hunts for the past 20 years and will post a few successful electionals on this soon!

Now I know someone is going to come out yelling that it's not related, but I'm finding horary and electional to be very related.

IE., Robson who borrowed from Ramsey says the 6th is the weopons or traps used in electional, and I'm strongly seeing this in this horary as Jupiter if this is Not steping outside horary's boundary, but it matches the weopons of the querant!

Geoffrey, back before the colonization of America, all males were in occupation hunters whether from patriarchal or matrichal societies so I'm certain that the 10th under those conditions was the order of the day; but they didn't use horary unless it has been lost in the oral traditions in any manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPzeY9itfLE

The Anasazi in 800 A.D. at Chaco Canyon north of Gallup, New Mexico have monumental stones set up for the 8 phases of the moon and a rock on a summit that is marked to pin-point the exact day of the summer solstice.

https://www.google.com/search?q='anasaz ... iAKAloHYDQ

Still Geoffrey I question the why of it, that Lilly puts so much emphasis on the Lord or the hour and Moon. And as stated, and I must add, in England I understand hunting latter became a priviledge for King's and lords until possibly Charles was beheaded; but even now I understand gun ownership is severely restricted.

I'm thinking the mutual reception of Mercury(large animals) to Mars(the 7th) is negating the effect of the Peregrine Mars!

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html

This website of Deb's recently described the querant in my latests travel related horary to the 'T', and in the present horary the animal sought reflects this loudly!

If any of my astro brethren whom would like to participate on a great hunt, contact me and we will go. James_M you are entirely welcome to be part of the film crew and we may put it on youtube! My partner and I last season brought back 12 deer from SD, as they are nearly over-populated due to vast agricultural feed like corn, milo, soy beans that has created a hunter's paradise!

http://lowerbrulewildlife.com/

Yes, my horary brothers we can hunt Elk and buffalo as well!

http://gfp.sd.gov/hunting/licenses/limi ... -deer.aspx


Clinton Garret Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

James_m stated:

in a world where big animals are under threat constantly due the changes on the planet, and very few hunters hunt for sustenance which i could understand, it is sad to think of killing an innocent animal.. what is in it for the person other then some egotistic thing? at this point in our culture i would look at this unnecessary action of murder more a 12th house thing, which i think is how big animals have always been associated with. maybe one would look to the 5th house if a persons ego is the reason for the kill..[/quote0

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/huntin ... ters-wrath

James-m, if there weren't humans who disturbed the ecosystem your concept would be warranted but unfortunately man and some animals can not live side by side too well and without hunting starvation and disease run a muck:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/16/us/idaho-bear-attack/

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/skunks.asp

http://www.nationaltrappers.com/coyote.html

However, they do cause of significant loss to livestock producers in some areas. These losses amount to millions of dollars, and cause hardships for many western and southern livestock producers.
In western states coyotes serve as a host for fleas and ticks which carry bubonic plague. This disease can be fatal to man. Western coyotes should be placed in large garbage bags after they are killed, and then sprayed with an insecticide. This will kill the parasites before they abandon the cooling body of the coyote.
Coyotes are also vulnerable to a variety of diseases, including parvo enteritis, mange, distemper and rabies. Heartworms afflict coyotes in areas, as do other internal parasites. External parasites include lice, mites, fleas and ticks.

James_M, and blessed Forum, what does this have to do with horary, and I knew there were going to to be those who opposed hunting for various reasons, both Vegan(extreme vegetarians) or Humanitarian?

Virtually little as it's an argument open to one's own morality just as Lilly demostrated in his horaries related to sexual conduct that were for his time largely in line with the 9th house Christian or Jewish dogmas in England during his day!

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/entertainmen ... index.html

http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks.htm

This happens quite frequently because of the clash of humans with wild things!


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

Clinton Soule wrote: Geoffrey, back before the colonization of America, all males were in occupation hunters whether from patriarchal or matrichal societies so I'm certain that the 10th under those conditions was the order of the day; but they didn't use horary unless it has been lost in the oral traditions in any manner.

. . . . . .

Still Geoffrey I question the why of it, that Lilly puts so much emphasis on the Lord or the hour and Moon. And as stated, and I must add, in England I understand hunting latter became a privilege for King's and lords until possibly Charles was beheaded; but even now I understand gun ownership is severely restricted.

Clinton, I am trying to draw a distinction between "Big Game" hunting, to which your question specifically referred, and ordinary hunting which is done to put food on the table or for vermin control.

Contrary to your expectations, there is a lot of hunting done in England. Deer have to be culled to prevent damage to forests, foxes are becoming a serious problem in England now and have to be controlled, wild boar are on the increase and do a lot of damage to farmer's crops, badgers spread bovine TB and have to be controlled.

On the other hand, there is no "Big Game" in England and if hunters want to indulge in that prestigious type of hunting, they have to go abroad.

Gun ownership is not "severely restricted" either. While it is not possible to go into Walmart and put a rifle and a box of cartridges into your shopping trolley along with the bread and the milk, there is no restriction on you acquiring a rifle provided you have a legitimate use for it and you don't have a criminal record. One major difference between England and the US is that "self defence" is not considered a legitimate use for owning a firearm in England.

Geoffrey stated:

Clinton, I am trying to draw a distinction between "Big Game" hunting, to which your question specifically referred, and ordinary hunting which is done to put food on the table or for vermin control.

Contrary to your expectations, there is a lot of hunting done in England. Deer have to be culled to prevent damage to forests, foxes are becoming a serious problem in England now and have to be controlled, wild boar are on the increase and do a lot of damage to farmer's crops, badgers spread bovine TB and have to be controlled.

Glad to here that hunting is also needed in the UK as nature does get out of balance if not regulated!

The only horary documents related to hunting I can find via the web is from India as in:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ItY0V3 ... y'&f=false


A few definitions:
Lagna = the ascendant
Kendra = one of the angles (1-4-7-10)
Arudha = a special ascendant (additional to the "natural" ascendant), being the sign as far from the lord of the (natural) ascendant as the lord of the ascendant is from the ascendant (especially prominent in the minority Jaimini approach to Vedic astrology)
Dhanus = Sagittarius
Rahu = the North Lunar Node (Ketu = the South Lunar Node)
Mandi = a hypothetical "planet" (horoscopic point) used in Vedic astrology since ancient times
Rasis (aka rashi, rashis) = the common term for a zodiacal sign

I believe I read years ago that horary artist John Frawley had studied some Vedic Horary and incorporated this in his methods.

Since Frawley has been seen as a renegade in Traditional horary, yet this may explain where John stands:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mMud-ccybQ

From the document from India it appears the Mars influence is strong in this hunting horary!

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

This is the conclusion on this horary that Lilly wrote of hunts as 7th house matters, most likely because it was the foe of the hunter in a sense.

This was the intended quarry the hunter wished to bag:

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/new ... index.html

http://fox40.com/2013/10/14/truckee-pol ... k-in-cars/

As you can see in California because of easy food for the bears in various neighborhoods bears are ripe to be harvested before fatal incidents may occur!

As Geoffrey graciously pointed out there would be an upset with Uranus on the 7th house cusp as the hunter's partners may not be that dependable.

And I wondered about the lord of the matter being unaspected as typically unaspected planets mean no action which transpired.


If one Does Not enlarge the horoscope nor re-calculate another horoscope from this page it tends to stay indefinitely, and one can get the Additional Tables(PDF) showing needed data, or go to the ephemeris page via this website:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid= ... fix=1&ast=

But as Uranus is the unexpected planet and unpredictable, making the opposition to the ascendant(health of the querant) and the physical body, an old surgery wound flared up preventing the disappointed hunter to make the hunt.

If anyone questions why we allow Outers in this reading I strongly suggest they read diligently our host's horary course:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know