Just wanted to hear your thoughts on what it means when the signifactor is the same for the querent and the matter asked?

There are some rulers that rule two different signs, they are Mercury, Venus, Saturn and Jupiter... so what do you think it means if a person is asking about a matter that has the same ruler as him/querent?

I guess some people actually would use modern rulers to clearify the issue ... but in the case of Mercury and Venus that is not possible.

Please do share your views.

In that case use Moon for you and "same" planet for the matter asked about.

Ok, thanks. I appreciate the guidance

Yes I was taught by Deb that Moon is for querent & planet for quesited

Ok thanks ... but you do mean ONLY in those circumstances where the ruler of ASC and the matter is the same? Because usually the Moon does not represent the querent - but rather the quality and course of the matter in question.

Have any of you tried to use the modern outer planets for rulers of Aquarius, Scorpio and Pisces with good results? Do you have any real cases/samples to learn from?

lifestudent:

Ok thanks ... but you do mean ONLY in those circumstances where the ruler of ASC and the matter is the same? Because usually the Moon does not represent the querent - but rather the quality and course of the matter in question.

Life student, let's say we have a horary with no intercepted signs with aries rising.

It is my understanding from all I have read, starting with Anthony Louis when he was a Moderne, and praise God he has evoled into more since he is diligently sudying traditionalism, Sue Ward, Dorothy J. Kovach, William F. Lilly's CA, and presently going through Henry Coley's work, that the asc. Lord and Luna are always the querant,

But say the matter is 8th house and scorpio is on the cusp, now Mars and Diana/Moon rule our querant and as I understand Mars as lord of the 8H is also lord of the matter as well.

Or, say we have another horary with no intercepted signs, and Aquarius is ascending and the matter is about the querant's possible incarceration. Again to my understanding Saturn is lord of the asc., and Luna/moon, and Saturn ruling the 12H will also rule the matter. In my oppinion Deb well covers this in her excellent online course!

And of course as always, I welcome the correction if I'm in error on this from my contemporary Traditionalist's advocates, who I relish the fact they uphold the vanguard of tradition and horary excellence!

lifestudent:

Have any of you tried to use the modern outer planets for rulers of Aquarius, Scorpio and Pisces with good results?

Now Lifestudent, long ago, in many winters of the distant past, I too as a horary infant entertained the misconception that so many Modernes still cling to but I must humbly recommend our beloved and devoted host's horary course as you may learn much about horary regardless of the level of awareness that you are presently upon:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html

And Robert Hand covers the contraversy between the usage of Outers quite well in the documents below:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1800

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_postmodern_e.htm

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001965.HTM


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

Thank you very much indeed for these links and your explanation.

I've already taken this course to the end ... but must read those links from Robert Hand. Isn't he into Magi astrology now? I think I saw an interview on that on youtube.

This course does indeed give the same impression I've had on the Moon, it is not really the querent, the querent is always the ruler of ASC ... but the Moon can help shed light on circumstanses and how the matter or situation of the querent's question will evolve.


But if indeed the Moon is a part of the querent along with the ASC ruler - then why would it not be ok to have it positioned in your 1st house or on the ASC in electional astrology and maybe horary as well?

Significators in Horary

The person who asks the question is called the querent. The querent is always primarily signified by the planet that rules the ascendant. The condition of the 1st house, any planets in the 1st house and the Moon will also help to describe the querent and his or her circumstances.

The person or issue asked about is called the quesited. It is described by the house that naturally governs that matter and it is signified by the planet that rules the cusp of that house. Again, you will want to consider any other planets located in that house as offering further descriptive information, but you only have one main significator for the quesited, and that is the planetary ruler of the sign on the cusp.

The Moon is a general significator for the whole situation. It may be helping to represent the querent or describing surrounding circumstances, or it could be describing the movement of events or deeply related issues that may not be immediately apparent from the question. It always demands some attention.

It is in the movement of the two main significators that we find much of our answer, so whilst other planets may be involved in adding descriptive details, these two planets act as a focus to which attention must be given. In addition, we should look closely at the position of the Moon and integrate that into the judgement. The Moon acts as a major, general significator, so its relationship with the other planets and significators will greatly refine the assesment of their situation.

The special role of the Moon in horary, and the ways that it could help to describe the querent or her situation, will be explored in further detail later. For now simply remember that the Moon is an important general factor that should never be overlooked. You always need to question what the position of the Moon is telling you. If the other significators make sense, but the position of the Moon doesn't seem to fit what you know of the chart, you may need to question whether there are other underlying factors that hold the key to the client's problem.

Your place may be the earth and you thus sharing it with the whole mankind, but as to quotations it would be very proper if you could be be so kind to reveal your source.

lifestudent wrote:
But if indeed the Moon is a part of the querent along with the ASC ruler - then why would it not be ok to have it positioned in your 1st house or on the ASC in electional astrology and maybe horary as well?

Who claims that the Moon should not be in the first house in a horary question, please?

Ah Sorry, I just copied it from within the link provided from the skyscript course on horary. It's indeed a very helpful guidance into understanding horary astrology.

Here is the link to the quotes
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1a.html

johannes susato wrote:

lifestudent wrote:
But if indeed the Moon is a part of the querent along with the ASC ruler - then why would it not be ok to have it positioned in your 1st house or on the ASC in electional astrology and maybe horary as well?

Who claims that the Moon should not be in the first house in a horary question, please?

Hmmm... I've been reading so much now... I'll try to find the link ... but I just read this some days ago in guidance into electional astrology.

6. Since the Moon can indicate fluctuating or unstable conditions, avoid times when the Moon is rising (on the Ascendant, which represents the event itself.)

http://judesthreshold.com/using-the-moo ... astrology/

17) The Moon should not be placed on the Ascendant.

http://www.sarahsastrology.com/page18.htm

lifestudent wrote:Ah Sorry, I just copied it from within the link provided from the skyscript course on horary. It's indeed a very helpful guidance into understanding horary astrology.

Here is the link to the quotes
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1a.html

Thanks, lifestudent!