John, I have never found VoC Moon to be a reliable indicator. When you look at the numbers they just don't support the claims made.

Another indicator people sometimes look at is radicallity. Is the chart radical in the horary sense? Again I have not found this reliable for win v draw or for favourite v underdog, or for home v away.

Linked to the above, it is sometimes suggested that a change of planetary hour, either just before or just after the start of a match, leads to more draws. I think Andrew, who posts on football here, is of that view. It would be interesting to see some numbers if anybody wants to do the research.

GB wrote:John, I have never found VoC Moon to be a reliable indicator. When you look at the numbers they just don't support the claims made.

Another indicator people sometimes look at is radicallity. Is the chart radical in the horary sense? Again I have not found this reliable for win v draw or for favourite v underdog, or for home v away.

Linked to the above, it is sometimes suggested that a change of planetary hour, either just before or just after the start of a match, leads to more draws. I think Andrew, who posts on football here, is of that view. It would be interesting to see some numbers if anybody wants to do the research.

My main problem with use of planetary hours for anything is who decided what day was the Sun's day and so on? Being ignorant of the calendar change from Julian to Gregorian, was the day unchanged or did it change with the date? When the Julian calendar was implemented, how did they decide which day was which? Since planetary hours are so dependant on the days how can we use them with any sense of accuracy?

Another indicator people sometimes look at is radicallity. Is the chart radical in the horary sense? Again I have not found this reliable for win v draw or for favourite v underdog, or for home v away.

I agree it is not a reliable indicator for a single game. But statistically the question of radicality should be considered. If the chart in not radical (in sense of a horary chart), then it is more likely that an underdog would win or draw. If you wish to predict an outcome for a particular game, then radicality or not radicality should be taken into consideration as one of the considerations, but alone it does not decide the outcome.

For draws, the change of the hour, the lord of ASC and the hour in the same triplicity, ASC in the first or the last degree of a sign, should be considered as primary indicators. If draws statistically, depending on the league, average from 20-40%, then charts with such indicators definitely produce draws above the average 35% - 45%. Statistically, such indicators should be considered but for a single none of them is reliable.

My main problem with use of planetary hours for anything is who decided what day was the Sun's day and so on? Being ignorant of the calendar change from Julian to Gregorian, was the day unchanged or did it change with the date? When the Julian calendar was implemented, how did they decide which day was which? Since planetary hours are so dependant on the days how can we use them with any sense of accuracy?

I don't think it is a problem whether the reformers of the calendar chose the "right or wrong Sunday". Lilly used planetary hours when he judge horaries more than a century after the calendar reform was implemented. He had never questioned the correctness of Gregorian calendar, at least I am unaware of such fact. Thousands after him did the same, we are doing the same...

Even if there were errors in implementing the Gregorian calendar, the collective subconsciousness has accepted the Gregorian calendar as correct. And we time all events according to this calendar. Modern Western world has no other point of reference regarding time. I think there is no reason to question the validity of hours even if the calendar reformers confused the days.

Janis Valkovskis wrote:I don't think it is a problem whether the reformers of the calendar chose the "right or wrong Sunday". Lilly used planetary hours when he judge horaries more than a century after the calendar reform was implemented. He had never questioned the correctness of Gregorian calendar, at least I am unaware of such fact. Thousands after him did the same, we are doing the same...

Well that is kind of my point: maybe we should be questioning it.

Even if there were errors in implementing the Gregorian calendar, the collective subconsciousness has accepted the Gregorian calendar as correct. And we time all events according to this calendar. Modern Western world has no other point of reference regarding time. I think there is no reason to question the validity of hours even if the calendar reformers confused the days.

Now you are assuming that the "collective subconciousness" is the dictator of stellar influence, I would disagree. I think it is a valid question to bring up. I have had many discussions with Numerologists who use 2013 as the current year and add numbers up from that reference. It makes me uneasy when using anything like the hours or Numerology since the specifics are so important and, at the same time, so unclear. Garbage in, garbage out and all that.

Konrad wrote:

Now you are assuming that the "collective subconsciousness" is the dictator of stellar influence, I would disagree. I think it is a valid question to bring up. I have had many discussions with Numerologists who use 2013 as the current year and add numbers up from that reference. It makes me uneasy when using anything like the hours or Numerology since the specifics are so important and, at the same time, so unclear. Garbage in, garbage out and all that.

Unlike you, I feel pretty comfortable with such a thing as planetary hours. I do not practice numerology so cannot comment what its practitioners are adding up and what distracting. Planetary hours are only one of the instruments I use. And I find them useful. I am not advocating that they should be used by all who are practicing art and trying to predict soccer outcomes or whatsoever.

I don't believe you think that an astrologer when looking at a chart is reading objective truth from an impartial viewpoint. If it were possible, then I probably would question the validity of planetary hours. Reading a chart (even a soccer chart) always requires a degree of divination. In my practice, a good deal of horaries are well described by the planets ruling the relevant hours. And if they do not, I'm not questioning the validity of the hours.

I once tried to develop absolute rules how to read charts (especially soccer charts) and in a couple of cases we had pretty contentious discussions. I had to device new and new rules to force to work those who appeared to be "reliable ones", and so again and again... For me it is now clear that there is no such a thing as an "absolute rule". I doubt that knowing the "right hours" would make their application valid and correct. May be it would make you feel comfortable if you decide to apply planetary hours.

ok, some good initial observations.

A technical query!!

A request for thoughts on changes of planetary hours, or I think the phrase is something about the guards are on the bridge!
What are people looking at- within 5 minutes, more, or less
I appreciate it's a bit like asking what orb someone uses.
Would the opinion differ if it were daytime during the summer, or daytime in winter (longer or shorter planetary hours)

I seem to have ground this thread into silence!

Some comments that have appeared on this Forum previously relate to the Nodes, POF (and POS), together with antision. I think I recall the FA Cup final upset was considered to be a Moon opposition POF aspect.
Whilst reference has been made to these in analysing results, whether they support home/favourite, draw, or away/underdog doesn't appear to have been clarified.

Again, any thoughts, or examples would be appreciated.

Coming back to planetary hours.

I have some statistics

These relate to Premiership games with individual kick-off times.

Taking 10 minutes either side of the change of planetary hour is 20 minutes.
Averaging out the differences in length of planetary hours this equates to one-third of each hour.

77 drawn games: 30 games within the 10 minute period either side of change of planetary hour equates to 40%. Slightly above average but conclusive? Out of the 30 games 13 were 5 minutes either side of the change of planetary hour.

287 games with a result: 66 were within the 10 minute period either side of the change of planetary hour. This is 31% of the games. There were 36 games within 5 minutes of the change of hour.

I tend to agree with Janis that there are a combination of factors, rather than a single factor. The question is which factors and what are they indicating>>