Hi Haydon and others,

Clarification is required on what I wrote before one gets misled even further. Reread carefully my initial post.

I never said the Sun is Giver of Life or of Years; it could participate with or override the Giver of Years, but one needs more testimonies for such longevity, and I showed them.
As I said, that was the first thing I noticed when I looked at the chart, it was not in any way the major one.
By the way, I read about this 3-5 degree Asc-MC rule in Bonatti years ago, but I think it is also present in the Persian Nativities book I or II.

I did not use the Perso-Arabic method of longevity but a much older one of which the "Hyleg-Alcocoden" doctrine is a mixture or spin off.
What looked like mere primary directions were in fact a full method of longevity, which uses not primaries but the rising times of the zoidia.

That is why I said I had not studied this chart and hence did not insist that the Moon is the Apheta. First of all, the chart could be nocturnal, especially with a crooked zoidion rising, and even it is diurnal it is no 100% guarantee that the Sun is the Giver of Life as there are many exceptions to this doctrine. But anyway, if the Sun is the Giver of Life then its directions should if not show the length of life be at least close to it, and it is not even close, whereas with the Moon it really works.
Anyway, as I said that is not the first method of longevity to be used. I am ok with the Sun being the Giver of Life, this does not potentially stop it from participating with the Giver of Years or length of life.

I did not mean spear-bearing at all. If you check the forward path of the Aphetic points in question you will see that benefics guard the forming figures (aspects in modern parlance) preventing the malefics from cutting the life "prematurely".

So what I did with the chart was use different methods for longervity. Neither the Ptolemaic, nor the Perso-Arabic method are complete within themselves.
What I shared was from Valens.


Thanks again for bringing up that nativity, Haydon, I have added it to my research folder.
My last comment is that this chart is truly rare in that Aphrodite not only is the confine lord of the Asc, both the Lights, and Fortune, but is in its own confines and trigon and very close to its maximum elongation and of course having most dignity in the Asc and averse to both malefics. A very long life indeed!

But when a planet is overcome by another planet or light, it's dominated even if the aspect is only WS, so regardless of any orb, separation, application and also rulership.
I always thought this was pretty much the strongest kind of influence in a chart.

Well, orbs (separation/application) and rulership (reception) matter very much.
It makes a great difference if one of these/more of them are present in a certain constellation or not.

Why/how would the Moon's dominant position in the 10th from Mars matter in this length of life calculation since Mars is wholly 'out of the picture' regarding both Mercury and the Moon, as I've already explained?



Regards,
Goran

msg deleted

cor scorpii wrote: Why/how would the Moon's dominant position in the 10th from Mars matter in this length of life calculation since Mars is wholly 'out of the picture' regarding both Mercury and the Moon, as I've already explained?

Because if overcoming should indeed be more dominant than any other aspect, and I'm not at all certain about that, then Mercury could probably not give his years, because it is overcome by malefic Mars. Edit: unless Mars becomes less malefic by being overcome by benefic Moon, in which case I don't now how much of a difference that would make.

Your questions and statements have challenged the way I though about all this, tnx Goran. I will now get back to the thread on overcoming I started a while ago and reread it, as I have the ungood feeling I might have it all wrong. I'm running around in circles with this chart.
If I should 'see the light' I will let you know

Best, Yuki