Looking over the asteroids I discovered Toro at 5' 49 degrees conj. Neptune/4th house. In the book Mechanics of the Future: Asteroids ? January 1, 1988 by Martha Lang-Wescott she writes

Where Toro aspects more passive energies (such as the Moon, Venus, Neptune or retrograde planets) or is tied in a highly stressful Aspect Pattern, the individual has used these planets to defend him or herself from the anger, violence or pushiness of others.

kali

al Nablusi wrote:Jupiter in a water sign, Neptune on the IC and Saturn in Scorpio all indicate that the plane is in water,

So every plane that goes down or disappears while Jupiter and Saturn is in water signs would go in the water? I don't think so. I think too much importance is given here regarding the element the planets are in and anyway it's not enough on its own for that outcome. After given this some further study I have come to another view. It doesn't cover all of it, at least not this far, as I'm mainly concerned about what have happened to the crew and passengers.

The Ascendant is in a cadent sign, which is a sign of vulnerability for the flight as such, but the fact that Asc Lord Jupiter is in a cardinal sign, even if in the 8th house, can as well indicate protection of some kind and in this case that all or most still are alive. I like to once again highlight the grand trine between Jupiter, Neptune and Vesta (who also is known by the name Hestia, the priestess and the eldest sister of Jupiter) , the latter in 11th but close enough to the cusp to be counted in to the 12th by the 5 deg rule.

A grand trine in water signs is the most powerful of them and water houses just add to that, and with Jupiter as Lord of the Asc together with Vesta this grand trine can bring a very beneficial influence that shouldn't be underestimated. As the event has developed, I tend to believe they are all well, but hidden away. They are possibly in the way for something but is not meant to come to harm, but will remain hidden until the real purpose of the action has come to bear fruit. Saturn in 12th in a Venus decan may indicate that they, the ones responsible, are waiting for something.

I agree with that there are strong signs the plane would have gone down in water but one thing to bear in mind about water is that it works pretty much like a lens that distort the perspective, so thinks may not be what they look like. The Ascendant is in decan ruled by Mercury and so is its Lord Jupiter. Mercury in 3rd ruled by Saturn in 12th may as well indicate that hey are on solid ground, but hidden and very likely close to water but not in it.

kali wrote:

it emerged that the pilot?s wife and three children moved out of the family?s home the day before the plane?s disappearance.

From where do you have this information? From what I have read, at several locations, the captains children are grown up and that he's a grand father - so that the wife left the day before with the children sounds like slander to me.

The co-pilot has been said to preparing for his wedding, so doesn't exactly fit in either. I think you are wrong going for the Captain as being a part of this. Naturally he would probably play an important role, but to me the Sun in Pisces BiQuintile Mars rather shows that he's suffering and is forces, most likely under gun threat.

kali wrote: I think you made a strong case, MorningSun but with his ruler Jupiter in exaltation and Sun ruling 9th, I see him working to save the plane and it's passengers.
kali

Yes, that's more like it.

JS, I do not mean to slander the pilot. The story about his wife and grown children moving out is reported in several papers. You can google it but the paper with the most information is http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.

My only interest is seeing the aspect showing up in this chart that relates to the story. It amazes me the small details shown in a chart. If the story is true, the Sun's antiscia opposing Uranus in the 5th house of children is remarkable to me and possibly supports MorningSun's belief the Sun represents the pilot.

kali

A similar case was Northwest Oriental Airlines Flight 2501, time of take-off 7:30 PM, 23 June 1950, New York, NY.

The wreckage of Northwest Flight 2501, which crashed into Lake Michigan off the coast of South Haven in 1950, has never been located and a cause for the crash has never been determined. More than six decades later, unanswered questions continue to define this tragedy.

http://archive.wzzm13.com/news/article/ ... y=obinsite

Notice how Jupiter was in Pisces, and the two malefics were in the ninth house, and Mercury squaring Saturn, and opposing the ascendant.

al Nablusi wrote:The wreckage of Northwest Flight 2501, which crashed into Lake Michigan off the coast of South Haven in 1950, has never been located and a cause for the crash has never been determined. More than six decades later, unanswered questions continue to define this tragedy.

Interesting. The Moon is ruler of the 8th - again, and the Moon is exactly angular - again.

kali wrote:JS, I do not mean to slander the pilot. The story about his wife and grown children moving out is reported in several papers. You can google it but the paper with the most information is http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.

I didn't mean you but the various tabloids out there, including digital ones. This is a perfect invitation to let the fantasy run, also for media people tempted to attract readers to any means not having a problem with little inspired writing. Just saying, and the link you gave seem to lead to nowhere... at least I got a "server not found" error.

kali wrote:My only interest is seeing the aspect showing up in this chart that relates to the story. It amazes me the small details shown in a chart. If the story is true, the Sun's antiscia opposing Uranus in the 5th house of children is remarkable to me and possibly supports MorningSun's belief the Sun represents the pilot.
kali

I agree, it's fascinating but Neptunes strong position in the chart may also tell us to read too much into it, things may not be as they seems. Also there is actually a later chart, with both a time and location, that maybe carries more and better information about what happened after, not the "take off" but the "Take over". That information is here although I am unsure if 01:22 or 01:30 should be used, but most important there are coordinates for the event so we actually have a location. I interpret it as the transponders were switched off at 01:22 and the "Allright, good night" call off to flight control was at 01:30 [edit] this has now been changed to 01:19, although admittedly the time marks are currently a bit patchy, but as understood at this point 01:22 is the time that is connected with the latest radar identification at the waypoint IGARI with the coordinates 6?55?15?N 103?34?43?E. Notable here is that it conflicts with what has been said earlier that transponders was switched off before the last voice contact - but what else can we expect with Neptune on IC of the take off chart?[/edit]

[edit2]Actually, I think I have an explanation to this. The com system that was switched of "before" is the ACARS, which was last heard from 01:07 BUT this system only checks in every 30 minutes so all they really know is that it was switched of before next transmission which by conclusion should have taken place as 01:37 but didn't. That should leave us with a valid chart for 01:22 (which now apparently should be 01:21) corresponding to the coordinates above or possibly 01:19, if it's possible to back trace and estimate the position based on speed etc.[/edit2]
That chart tells a similar but slightly different story, but I have no means of putting up a screen shot of it right now so maybe someone else can do it?[/b]

The time 08:11 has been given as the last signal received from the plane, according to satellite tracking data. As I pointed out in an earlier post, if a chart is drawn up with this time for Kuala Lumpur the Asc is at ARIES 0 dg 5' and Mc at CAP 0 dg 4' and I can see this as:

The plane, represented by Asc has completed its journey reaching the end of the zodiac, where a new phase begins, and with Mc representing its destination which then indicated that is has been sat down on soil, possibly in an area with mountains or rough terrain. Which imply they went north, against all odds. But if this is well organised, and part of a bigger operation, they also probably have the right persons at the right places to get through.

thanks al nablusi and geoffrey. i was unaware of that event. the moon in this chart applies to neptune verses having just left the square to neptune. also the fairly sharp square involving mercury and saturn in this chart mirrors the one for flight 370.. jupiter in pisces is the 4th whole sign house while mars is the ruler of the i.c. the moon has separated from mars and moves towards neptune here. mars/uranus is in a very close square as well in the chart above al nablusi has shared.

Geoffrey wrote:

al Nablusi wrote:The wreckage of Northwest Flight 2501, which crashed into Lake Michigan off the coast of South Haven in 1950, has never been located and a cause for the crash has never been determined. More than six decades later, unanswered questions continue to define this tragedy.

Interesting. The Moon is ruler of the 8th - again, and the Moon is exactly angular - again.

Geoffrey wrote:

al Nablusi wrote:The wreckage of Northwest Flight 2501, which crashed into Lake Michigan off the coast of South Haven in 1950, has never been located and a cause for the crash has never been determined. More than six decades later, unanswered questions continue to define this tragedy.

Interesting. The Moon is ruler of the 8th - again, and the Moon is exactly angular - again.

While there certainly are strong similarities there are also important differences, which to me indicated they did not meet the same fate. Like Jupiter in 8th, very different to Pluto there. The grand trine of Jupiter, Neptune and Vesta in MH370 is something you don't find in the 2501 chart, and the Asc/Des axis is of a different nature than the Mc/Ic.

I don't know if it has been confirmed that 2501 actually crashed, but I don't think that's the case with MH370, I don't believe it went in to the water as several have suggested here. Jupiter is simply too strong here and actually protects against the bad influences from 8th. Also, another detail overlooked is that Pallas Athena, daughter of Jupiter, is conjunct with Mc in 9th. Actaully, and it strikes me now, almost looks like a family affair.

I experimented a bit more with the 8:11 AM time, and if we use the IGARI waypoint coordinates, which is the last known identified position, Asc/Mc would enter Aries/Capricorn at about 8:03, which could be the landing time, and they them have 8 minutes tax off the landing strip into cover and power down the machine. Makes sense to me and fits the picture as the automatic ping has been said to send as long as the plane is powered with electricity, even if it on the ground.

Sure, it a theory but at this stage without really having any fact about what have happened, everything is theory.

Like Jupiter in 8th, very different to Pluto there.

JS, strong Jupiter rules the 4th house of endings and is in the 8th. Lilly says in 'Christian Astrology' page 408 that if the Lord of the asc. conj or commits his dispostition to, be Lord of the eight, then whether he be a good or an ill planet, he kills (for every planet must do his office,)...". This is powerful testament.

kali

kali wrote:

Like Jupiter in 8th, very different to Pluto there.

JS, strong Jupiter rules the 4th house of endings and is in the 8th. Lilly says in 'Christian Astrology' page 408 that if the Lord of the asc. conj or commits his dispostition to, be Lord of the eight, then whether he be a good or an ill planet, he kills (for every planet must do his office,)...". This is powerful testament.

kali

That might be true, and I have all respect for Lilly, but I still consider a "Jupiter kill" quite different to a "Pluto kill", and the influence of its involvement in a grand trine with Neptune and Vesta should not be ignored. Neptune may here as well tell us that the end as we see it is an illusion.

Actually, there is already a manifested example of the nature of this Jupiter kill. It's label MH370 has been killed, which is something that very much is connected with this particular flight and plane. I don't want to draw any particular conclusions from that at this stage, but I think it's safe to say that just as there is a difference between a Pluto an a Jupiter kill, there may also be a difference in signification of a "kill" in the 17th century compared to the 21th, symbolically.

But my point here is that while there are similarities there are also important differences and I don't think they met the same fate. Maybe we never will know, but hope not as I believe this one will "float up" some how, in time.